Rabbi Dr. Ismar Schorsch is chancellor emeritus of The Jewish Theological Seminary (JTS) and the Rabbi Herman Abramovitz Distinguished Professor of Jewish history. He’s had a long, illustrious career of service to the Jewish community. Last year, we spoke after he wrote critically about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. In a time when so many Jews are hungry for moral leadership, Rabbi Schorsch’s courage and decency have been all too rare.
I wanted to speak to him before the Passover holiday, as I and so many Jews are struggling to reconcile our Jewishness with opposition to Israel’s actions. I’m honored and grateful he agreed to speak with me again.
Topics include…
the long Jewish history of tension between politics and religion
difficult parts of the Passover story, like the harshness of the plagues, and God hardening Pharaoh’s heart
the story of Amalek and how it’s employed politically today
what Judaism teaches about repentance
whether Jewish observance actually makes us more ethically refined
Reminder: There will be no Friday Zoom this week.
Happy Passover!
Peter
TRANSCRIPT
Peter B: So, I’m really honored to be joined for this conversation by Rabbi Ismar Schorsch. He was, for years, the Chancellor of the Jewish Theological Seminary. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the son of a rabbi. The family left Germany in… I was privileged to have a conversation with Rabbi Schorsch a while back, after he wrote, I think, some very important words about how he was feeling about what Israel was doing in Gaza and in the West Bank to Palestinians.
I think there are so many younger American Jews, and not-so-young American Jews, who have been looking for moral leadership from our rabbis, particularly rabbis of the stature of Ismar Schorsch, for a way to understand what it means to be Jewish in this moment.
I wanted to have him on before Pesach begins, before the holiday of Passover begins next week, because I’ve really been struggling with questions that I myself have been asked but don’t know how to answer. They go along the lines of: How can I be Jewish, proudly Jewish, in this moment, when so much of the way that Judaism is understood in America today is so wrapped up with support for things that Israel is doing that many people I know find unconscionable? Can these two things—the behaviors of the Israeli state and Judaism itself—be disentangled? What would it even mean to try to disentangle them, given how fused they have been in so many Jewish settings for as long as many of us have lived?
Those are the questions that I was eager to ask Rabbi Schorsch, and I’m just very grateful to you for doing this, Rabbi Schorsch.
Ismar Schorsch: You’re very welcome, Peter.
I might begin by pointing out that this is not the first time in Jewish history where it has been necessary to disentangle the Jewish state from the Jewish religion. I remind you that the Maccabees succeeded in defeating the Syrian Greeks back in the ancient period—a victory that gave us the Festival of Chanukkah. But the religious leadership that existed during the Hasmonean kingdom, that is the monarchy that followed the Maccabees, was deeply critical of the actions of the political leadership. That is the origin of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were probably preserved and written by a dissident religious group that was critical of the Hasmonean monarchy.
So there is rich experience in Jewish history for the disentanglement of religion and political behavior. I could take you all the way back to the prophets. The prophets were the critics of the Northern Kingdom especially, but also at times of the Southern Kingdom in ancient Israel. The combination of national and religious identity leads to a complicated political-religious existence. And we are at a moment where there is a deep divide between religious sensibility and political behavior. That is what young people and Jews all over America are grappling with.
Peter B: Now, what would you say to those who say, well, maybe the sensibility that we see expressed by the Israeli government today—obviously not only the Israeli government, but the American government and many other governments—but we’re talking about the Israeli government, which is militaristic and oppressive. These are supported by our texts, right? It’s not like Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich can’t also read Tanakh. They can also read rabbinics, and they can find justifications for these things. So what is your basis for the idea that there is something in Judaism that is critical of this notion, when others might find texts that actually support conquering, oppressing, even wiping out entire peoples?
Ismar Schorsch: Allow me to focus on Passover.
Passover is a biblical holiday. And to get at the deeper meaning of Passover, I think you have to go back to the biblical texts which were the context of Passover. It seems to me that within the biblical context we can help find some light for contemporary complexity.
There are two strictures on Passover. Passover, as you know, is the moment when the clan becomes a nation. It is a momentous transition, but that national identity is not without its constraints within the biblical context.
I will dwell for a moment on the origin of Egyptian slavery. Why did our patriarchs end up in Egypt to begin with? It seems to me that the structure of Genesis makes it very clear that before Israel could become a model nation-state, it had to go through the bitter experience of slavery. Granted that slavery and suffering does not necessarily translate into virtue. But it is a hopeful context for the structure of a better political society.
When Abraham had conquered the foreign kingdoms and recovered his nephew Lot, the land was at his fingertips. There were no competitors left. And yet it is precisely at that moment when Abraham could have taken possession of the land that God told him to inhabit—go forth from your home and your birthplace—that God says there is need for a mid-course correction. I’m not ready to let you take possession of the land. You need to go to Egypt, where your descendants will suffer for a good many hundred years in slavery. And only then will you emerge ready to assume the mantle of a model political society that will begin a new era in human history.
So the first stricture that Israel faces is to remember its slavery, remember the cruelty and the political oppression which you suffered, for that is the polar opposite of the kingdom that I want you to create. And the second stricture on this political entity coming out of Egypt is Mount Sinai. Mount Sinai follows the Exodus. The Exodus is not an end in itself. The Exodus is followed by the giving of the Torah at Mount Sinai. It is the giving of commandments. It is the imposition of principles and values that are to guide this political entity. The political entity created after the Exodus is not to be driven by greed. It is to be driven by constraints, morality, and fundamental principles. So the nation that came out of Egypt had quite severe constraints placed upon itself in order to help it become the model political entity that might inspire the ancient world.
I believe that thinking of Passover in that context gives us values and inspirations that can help us celebrate Passover in the contemporary era.
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