Actually we have heard very little from teh progressive left in a way of support for Iran's women. Certainly nothing from Tlaib or Sarsour that I can find. And generally, it has been pretty quiet from the progressives but then again many of these have fought for the hijab and this particular revolt in Iran is more than a bit in their face. They are rejecting the forced garb for womankind.
While I think it's irrelevant who here in America supports the Iranian uprising, the question as to what comes after the Mullahs in Iran is still dependent on what percentage of the people in Iran are still strongly affiliated with Islam.
The reason I bring that up is that my observation of governance is that where religion (I include all religions here) is dominant in the culture, it is really hard to set up and follow a democratic system. And the reason is that there will always be some who will say we know what the good book says and we cannot change it.
There is a tension between religion and democracy. Religion owes its allegiance to a deity and a doctrine; Democracy owes it allegiance to majority rule and an earthly constructed rule-based system. Countries where the population is tethered towards a religion often find themselves giving up the people‘s rule for a theocratic alternative. It’s why the Middle East is riddled by these failed attempts. Europe had this discussion several hundred years ago and moved on.
Turkey (not really in Europe) has undergone many see-saws with Democracy and note, to win Erdogan appealed to the poor country masses tethered to Islam to keep him in power. Netanyahu cravenly appealed to the Religious Zionists on the West Bank to put him back in power. And the Moslem Brotherhood in Egypt (hardly a Democratic institution) bussed the Islam tethered country folks to the polls to win the elections and to put their version of Islam in power.
You make a good argument. It applies very much, of course, to the USA which was in part founded by religious fundamentalists who wanted the freedom to practise their highly restrictive practices on their own and on their own families - whatever they might have wanted. Today there is a clear and open campaign waged by traditionally American fascists and American Christian fundamentalists to remove the country's weak democratic institutions and replace them with a Christian-fascist state. If they are not stopped, the consequences for the USA and for the entire world will be catastrophic. Many of these religious fanatics want to start a nuclear war so as to bring about the long-awaited second coming of their messiah whose supposed words in their New Testament are utterly at odds with their own words and behaviour.
It does not apply to America because the founders deliberately excluded religion, because many of them were victims of religious persecution. The ones to worry about are the monied they are tired of the 200-year-old experiment and do not want to share their wealth; they would prefer a Putin like oligarchy and they have the money to persuade people, read Democracy in Chains by Nancy McLean.
So, Peter, you must be supportive of Hamas in Gaza, given that they were “democratically elected representatives”? And not surprisingly, no mention of Iran’s support of terrorism, their continuous threat of Israel’s annihilation, and their general mission of Middle East hegemony by whatever means necessary. The JCPOA, with its open ended opportunity to develop the nuclear weapon, is flawed. Getting this twisted autocracy to understand the wrath of the civilized world against them is the objective of tight sanctions. Hopefully it will lead to regime change. We should be doing everything possible to support this uprising, including tighter sanctions going forward, tied to women’s rights.
Please tell me more about this 'civilized world'. Is it the one that invaded Iraq in 2003, slaughtering the local people by the tens of thousands? Is it the one that destroyed Libya in 2010, an assault begun by a 'civilized' Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who, as reported by CNN, "shared a laugh with a television news reporter moments after hearing deposed Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi had been killed. "We came, we saw, he died," she joked when told of news reports of Qaddafi's death by an aide in between formal interviews."
You are in select company: a defender of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Qaddafi — and probably by extension the Ayatollahs, leaders of Hamas, et.al. — ruthless murderers who killed and terrorized countless innocent. Were you cheering on 9-11? Shame on you.
That is a strange misreading of my comment in which there is not a word of support for Gaddafi's activities. Rather I question your claim that the West represents what you call 'civilisation' when there isn't an iota of evidence that our history and current practices are morally any better than those you criticise.
It’s very hard to take the “Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran” caucus in the US foreign policy establishment and in Congress as having any sincere concern for the Iranian street protests. It reeks of opportunism and cynicism.
As we saw in Iraq, to promote regime-change as US policy is to promote mass civil war and the disintegration of society in which the most ruthless will survive and rise to power. Those brave young liberals, women, and street activists would be the first against the wall.
This is especially true if the collapse of the regime had the meddling fingerprints of foreign powers all over it. This would discredit the very cause that the hawks claim to champion among the older more conservative Iranians in rural areas who sympathy for the cause is crucial if democratic reforms are a possible outcome.
Remember Juan Guaidó in Venezuela as a viable opposition leader against Maduro? He was embraced by the Trump administration—usual suspects John Bolton, Elliott Abrams, Mike Pompeo—and was directly implicated in a comically inept violent coup against Maduro of questionable connection to the Trump administration. Now Guiadó is completely discredited and his own allies have turned on him.
If American and Israeli hawks had an ounce of concern for the Iranian protestors, they would simply cheer from the sidelines but otherwise stay out of it.
Peter you can't win arguments by pointing your finger and saying "you're authoritarian", or you're just a "client state". Word salad and citing Jew-hater Ilhan Omar wins no arguments. Sorry you're still of the rails.
Ilhan Omar is a courageous woman who has the guts to stand up to the apartheid Israeli state of Zionists. There is not the slightest evidence of her being hateful to Jewish people. The Israeli state, on the other hand, practises racism against the Palestinian people and against black Jewish people.
"Racism is integral to Zionism, and we see this not just in the treatment of Palestinians, but also in how they treat Jewish people of African descent. The Zionist project is fundamentally about capitalism, settler-colonialism and maintaining an “ethnically” Jewish state. The Ethiopian Jewish community has existed for thousands of years, tracing its history to the ancient kingdoms of Aksum and the Ethiopian Empire. Many Ethiopian Jews immigrated to Israel in the late 20th century.
Since arriving in Israel, many Ethiopian Jews have faced constant discrimination.Their faith was questioned by rabbis and their communities ostracized from the rest of Israeli society. In 1990, the National Israeli Blood Bank routinely destroyed blood donated by Ethiopian Israelis because they were “afraid that the Ethiopians carried HIV.” There was a cap on the number of Ethiopian Jews entering Israel until relatively recently.
The minority status of the Ethiopian Jewish community creates poor material conditions. They have the highest poverty rate among the Jewish population in Israel and face the highest levels of police violence after Palestinians. Israel calls itself a bastion of human rights and progress, while denying rights to both Palestinians and Ethiopian Jews. The treatment of Ethiopian Jews is completely different from the warm welcome offered to Jewish people from the United States, the United Kingdom, and Australia, for instance."
Peace is readily achievable between Israel and Palestine when Palestinians 1) accept Israel’s right to exist; 2) agree to a state of their own next to Israel; and 3) agree to a “right of return” to a new state of Palestine and not to Israel.
For over 70 years there have been numerous formal and informal efforts to achieve a two state peace, but all have ended with Palestinian rejection. But times are changing as Arab countries refuse to be held hostage by Palestinian intransigence and are normalizing relations with Israel.
When the corrupt, criminal Palestinian leaders stop teaching children that one day they will ‘drive the Jews into the sea’, and instead choose to live side by side in peace, then both peoples can thrive.
Israel has never had a moral or legal right to exist as a state which privileges Jewish people over all others. You and your Zionist friends will need to accept that your apartheid state must end before peace can be achieved. The Palestinian people's cause is just. The Zionist cause is one of fascism and racism; is that the side you are on?
There will never be a two state solution. Time you accepted this. Sure, there is corruption and criminality in the PA and Hamas - as there is in the apartheid Israeli government. "The former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is reportedly close to reaching a plea bargain in his corruption trial, a development that could mean an unexpectedly swift end to his turbulent political career and once again upend Israeli politics." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/16/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-plea-bargain-trial
The Arab countries, many of whom are long-standing allies of the 'civilized' West, are even more corrupt, criminal and repressive than is apartheid Israel or the PA and Hamas. I doubt you'll find much to praise in them, yet Israel seems to love them.
"All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."
Do you really imagine that you are the first to suggest this? All rights are conditional - none is absolute. Does the right of the unborn foetus to life supersede that of a pregnant woman's reproductive rights? Likewise, the right of self-determination for Jewish people (and there is no agreement amongst such people as to what determines Jewish identity) cannot be absolute. The right of Palestinian people to not be removed from their homes in 1948 was clearly violated. The right of non-Jewish people (not just Palestinians) to exercise full democratic rights in Israel is continually violated. This does not imply that Jews are lesser people, but the treatment by Zionist settlers of Palestinian people clearly shows what those Zionists think of the human status of Palestinians.
"GENEVA (1 June 2021) – A UN human rights expert condemned attacks on Israel's Palestinian minority by extreme right-wing and vigilante groups, including settlers – at times with the reported backing of security forces - and urged Israel to fully and equally protect all of its citizens without discrimination.
Palestinians citizens of Israel, including the Bedouin, constitute an Arab minority representing about 1.5 million people or 20 percent of the population of Israel and face discrimination in many areas.
"Reports of extreme right-wing violence and disproportional use of force by law enforcement officials during protests in recent weeks, including in Sheikh Jarrah, Damascus Gate and the Al-Aqsa mosque, have led to some of the worst cases of violence against Palestinian citizens of Israel," said Fernand de Varennes, the Special Rapporteur on Minority Issues."
You think you are helping the Palestinian people, but this misguided thinking by you, Peter and your ilk, that one day Israel will change or “get what’s coming to them”, is leaving the Palestinians behind while Israel and much of the Middle East is moving forward and thriving. So, again…shame on you.
The shame is on anyone who supports a viciously racist, fascistic regime governed by Zionists who regard Palestinians as lesser people to be exploited and murdered. That's the side you have chosen to support, Richard. I'm happy to be part of the resistance against you. These are my personal heroes:
"After relentless direct action and a number of arrests, Palestine Action has made business in Britain’s capital inoperable for Israel’s largest weapons company, Elbit Systems. The firm has abandoned its office at 77 Kingsway, leaving Elbit’s London Headquarters permanently closed.
Since 2020, activists have taken action 15 times at the site, disrupting business by blockading, occupying and defacing the property. The campaign culminated in 60 arrests for which activists continue to face trial. Elbit’s exit in London comes just 5 months after it was forced to shut Elbit Ferranti in Oldham."
You’re a loser. You think you’re doing something helpful when you’re nothing but a speck. Elbit Systems will be just fine. Israel will continue to thrive. But Palestinian people will be left behind because of their corrupt leaders and dummies like you who implicitly support them. Shame on you. https://www.elbitsystems-uk.com/
Rebecca you must be very young and impressionable to be so fervently anti-semitic. and a socialist to boot ! The idea that Socialism would bring Liberation is total nonsense and disproven time and again by history.
First of all ... Ethiopian Jews were saved by Israel from wartorn Ethiopia with considerable cost and risk. This is NOT racism. The fact that their Jewish lineage needed proving is only a matter of the Jewish position on conversion. Jews do not encourage conversion and even actively discourage it out of respect for "the other". Contrast this with both Islam and Christianity which are imperialistic with regard to converts and territory. Read the story of Naomi and Ruth - the salient question being not DID Ruth convert, but AT WHAT POINT DID Ruth convert. Read also the commentary of the massacre at Shechem which began with the rape of Dinah and the scheming of the local Shechemites to join the wealthy Hebrew tribe. Both motivations are low,and represent morally low people. The Muslim Arabs in Nablus continue this morally questionable lifestyle today. The massacre, like many episodes of Jewish violence, are self-defensive in nature.
Ilhan Omar is another example of low morality. Who knows if she is ethnically Arab or even Jewish for that matter, since, yes Ethiopian Jews are authentic, and Muslim intolerance for the other is very real. The fact is, Ilhan Omar is a practicing Muslim, and unfortunately, Islam is an inherently bigoted ideology. Half of the Islamic surah and hadith govern non-Muslims; making it political rather than religious. Islam does not tolerate non-Muslim in its midst. Ilhan Omar could be ethnically Jewish but too bad for her and the world at large, she is a practicing Muslim. Her beautiful and refined features are very much like the Ethiopian Jews who are in Israel today. And she is firey and outspoken like many Jews are. But she apparently married her brother to gain immigration benefits and she is full of hateful rhetoric against Jews. But self-hating Jews are also a thing. Peter being a good example.
As for today's Israeli Ethiopian Jews, they are doing just fine overall. It's a common phenomenon that new immigrant groups take a generation or two to acclimate and integrate. Israel does a fantastic job of this process and does not discriminate in housing or support for any of its immigrants. Yes Israelis are generally lighter skinned than Ethiopians but so what ? Do you know any white skinned peoples that live in mud huts today ? NO. White skinned peoples have advanced the living standards of the rest of the world, and for you to criticize this is really shameful. There have been injustices for sure, and on both sides. Black Africans were the source for slaves during the slave trading period and just as guilty and complicit as white skinned peoples.
Let's look now at UN Res 2334, which the anti-semitic Barack Obama , along with his administration's clueless John Kerry and Samantha Powers were instrumental in having adopted. This resolution forbids Jews from living in Judea and Samaria. Now Rebecca, THIS is apartheid written into international law. It will never be accepted in Israel that Jews cannot live in Judea and Samaria. Not only is this outrageously bigoted, it will eventually provoke war in an area where "Palestinians" and Jews have a potential for living in harmony. Or should I say HAD a potential, because today, there is a high potential for violence and even civil war in Judea and Samaria. And you know who will be on the losing end of this war ? The Muslims. So in this sense I agree that the US had a very destructive hand in the affairs of Muslims and Jews in this region.
I ask you, Rebecca, does the world need another Judenrein country such as a fake Palestine would bring ? Palestinian is not an ethnicity like Kurds, Armenians, Sikhs, Turks, Persians, Berbers, etc. There is a long list of ethnicities that the Arab Muslims have colonized, taken lands from, and erased off the face of the earth. The most recent and glaring is the Kurdish people who did not get a nation out of the Yalta conferences, much to the shame of the western powers.
I suggest that you broaden your scope of reading to Algemeiner, WIN, Mosaic, and JNS if you want a more well-balanced intellectual diet of material to learn about Jews and Israel. Peter Beinart has a strangely narrow and unintellectual viewpoint which is actually damaging to Diaspora Jewry and relations with Israel. Leftist word salad doesn't meet mature standards for political thought and discourse. You need real- world examples of the current events in every country where Islam, Christianity, Hindu, Buddhism and Judaism intersect. Read about the former Indonesian Christian governor who was put in prison for 2 years for saying that Muslims could indeed be governed by a Christian leader. Read about Islamic terrorist separatist groups in Mindanao, Rohingya, England, France, Kashmir, etc. Islam is a political movement that is poison to the world at large. This fact must be known and understood. So Rebecca, grow your intellectual brain instead of letting it shrink with Socialist garbage.
The accusation of anti-Semitism by anyone who supports the apartheid Israel government is ironic, to say the least. That government has its most fervent friends and allies amongst the far right around the world who love that a state can privilege one ethnic/religious group above all others. White supremacy is no better or worse than Jewish supremacy, or German, or any other. Israel was founded by Zionist supremacists. Their racism is opposed by many Jewish people. Are they anti-Semitic, too?
Your claim that Black Ethiopian Jewish people are not victims of widespread racism by white Jewish Israelis is not backed with evidence. Here is some more: "3.5 percent of criminal indictments were filed against Ethiopian Israelis in 2015, more than twice their percentage of the population. Meanwhile, the percentage of indictments filed against Ethiopian minors was four times their ratio of the population. The percentage of Ethiopian minors who end up in prison was nearly 10 times their proportion of the population (comprising 18.5 percent of the inmates in Ofek Prison, as of June 2016)." There is plenty more.
Being non-religious, I am no supporter of Islamic fundamentalism or its rampant anti-Semitism. I would like to see a world without religion, and I see the horrendous results of sectarianism all around the world. I'm British, and I lived through the times of the Northern Ireland 'Troubles' which were, in part, a result of two religious sects at war. However, your accusation of 'low morality' against Rep. Omar has no evidence either. What does that even mean? Your own words indict you in being a hater of Muslim people.
Not only is militant Islam a 'political movement' but so is evangelical Christianity in the USA which is closely allied to the fascist, Trumpist far right and also to the apartheid Israel government. Your cause is not one any supporter of the international working class would want to see prosper. Capitalism is an utter failure at anything apart from destroying the natural world, increasing inequality, and stealing the wealth that the working class produces. I am proud to have learned to become more socialist over the years, which involved me having to admit I was wrong in many things. It was only the evidence that convinced me. Isn't it time you learned, too?
Rebecca, you can see the decline in Jeremy Corbyn and the Labor Party. Justifiably so !
And maybe you are black and heavily invested in the idea that White Privilege and White Supremacy have any foothold in reality. You have a lot to learn Rebecca. Words like "fascist" , "militant", "apartheid", "white privilege", "liberation", "international working class", ... these have no meaning and are just slogans and word salad that people who can't think straight rely on. Obviously you can't think straight Rebecca. No I didn't say I didn't like Muslims. I think Islam is poison and I clearly distinguish between the person and the ideology. The fact that most Muslims, including Ilhan Omar, acceded to and agree with fundamentalists and jihadist violence is proof positive that most Muslims ARE indeed, infected with the hateful ideology of Islam. But there is a growing apostate movement, which I support. If you haven't listened to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, you should. She is a Somali Muslim apostate and an intellectual who has been embraced by thinking westerners, including myself. She was also a friend of Theo Van Gogh who was murdered by a jihadist. If you want to learn why Islam is poison, just listen to a few of her interviews and find out the danger of Dawa.
The Troubles in Northern Ireland have very little in common with any facts pertaining to Israel, despite the attempts to draw parallels. I have criticisms of Christianity, but it is certainly better and less dangerous to the world than Islam. At least they have the Torah for a moral guide rather than bigoted and violent books like the Quran, Hadith, Surah and Books of Bukhari. Check out The Center for the Study of Political Islam and get some education.
It is entirely natural that anyone who wants a better world would be disgusted by the existence and behaviour of the apartheid, ethnocratic state of Israel. It is those who support it that need to question themselves.
"this despotic, savage regime" is responsible for the creation of the educated middle class that will overthrow it. Iran is already more democratic than Israel's allies in the gulf; and if Israel, the occupied territories and Gaza are de facto a single state, then Iran is a more democratic than Israel itself. Iran still has the largest Jewish population in the middle east outside Israel, and a sizable number of Christians. All in all, absent foreign meddling, the Iranian government won't collapse when the guardianship is ended. That's a good thing for Iranians, but it's not what the US or Israel or any of the gulf monarchies want.
Mr. Edenbaum, Iran currently is shooting at its own population because of a political disagreement? I am not aware that this was a Democratic principle. And recently they were shooting at other minorities in Iran (Bulochstanins). And when they are not shooting their on they execute gays.
The Guardian: "Her death [Mahsa Amini] is the consequence of an increasingly repressive crackdown on women’s rights across the country, after Iran’s hardline president Ebrahim Raisi launched a new hijab decree mandating stricter enforcement of Iran’s laws on women’s dress in public spaces."
Raisi was elected. When was the last election in the Gulf? "Iran currently is shooting at its own population because of a political disagreement?" So I guess you agree with me about Israel.
Iran is officially a "guided democracy". John Stuart Mill defended the same thing for backwards nations with populations that weren't ready for freedom. Most liberals defend the rule of experts. Many oppose freedom of speech. A lot of liberals defend Israel. In 2011 the Israeli government called on the US to guarantee the safety of the Saudi regime
Mossadegh wasn’t “ democratically “ elected. He was elected by The Shah of Iran. That itself shows the level of your ignorance. If NIAC regime’s mouthpiece retweets your nonsense, we know which side you truly stand with
Your understanding of the history does not appear sufficient. According to Wikipedia: "On 28 April 1951, the Shah appointed Mosaddegh as Prime Minister after the Majlis (Parliament of Iran) nominated Mosaddegh by a vote of 79–12." That is rather similar to the process here in the UK. Our PM, Liz Truss, was recently appointed by the queen after being elected by members of the Conservative party.
We lived in in Sudan as well. Isreal, UAE, Egypt and Saudi with the help of Trump backed the Junta and the militia leaders from day one of the revolution to finally over through the transitional government once the PM Hamadok did not join the Ibrahimc accords publicly and said to leave that to an elected goverment.
How do you feel about Israel's assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists?
I remember having a (good-natured) disagreement with an anti-sanctions activist on Twitter about this. If I were a fan of the Israeli government I wouldn't be reading your substack, but opposing this kind of targeted killing seems counterproductive. Shouldn't it be seen as an alternative to economic measures that harm the civilian population?
Actually we have heard very little from teh progressive left in a way of support for Iran's women. Certainly nothing from Tlaib or Sarsour that I can find. And generally, it has been pretty quiet from the progressives but then again many of these have fought for the hijab and this particular revolt in Iran is more than a bit in their face. They are rejecting the forced garb for womankind.
While I think it's irrelevant who here in America supports the Iranian uprising, the question as to what comes after the Mullahs in Iran is still dependent on what percentage of the people in Iran are still strongly affiliated with Islam.
The reason I bring that up is that my observation of governance is that where religion (I include all religions here) is dominant in the culture, it is really hard to set up and follow a democratic system. And the reason is that there will always be some who will say we know what the good book says and we cannot change it.
There is a tension between religion and democracy. Religion owes its allegiance to a deity and a doctrine; Democracy owes it allegiance to majority rule and an earthly constructed rule-based system. Countries where the population is tethered towards a religion often find themselves giving up the people‘s rule for a theocratic alternative. It’s why the Middle East is riddled by these failed attempts. Europe had this discussion several hundred years ago and moved on.
Turkey (not really in Europe) has undergone many see-saws with Democracy and note, to win Erdogan appealed to the poor country masses tethered to Islam to keep him in power. Netanyahu cravenly appealed to the Religious Zionists on the West Bank to put him back in power. And the Moslem Brotherhood in Egypt (hardly a Democratic institution) bussed the Islam tethered country folks to the polls to win the elections and to put their version of Islam in power.
You make a good argument. It applies very much, of course, to the USA which was in part founded by religious fundamentalists who wanted the freedom to practise their highly restrictive practices on their own and on their own families - whatever they might have wanted. Today there is a clear and open campaign waged by traditionally American fascists and American Christian fundamentalists to remove the country's weak democratic institutions and replace them with a Christian-fascist state. If they are not stopped, the consequences for the USA and for the entire world will be catastrophic. Many of these religious fanatics want to start a nuclear war so as to bring about the long-awaited second coming of their messiah whose supposed words in their New Testament are utterly at odds with their own words and behaviour.
It does not apply to America because the founders deliberately excluded religion, because many of them were victims of religious persecution. The ones to worry about are the monied they are tired of the 200-year-old experiment and do not want to share their wealth; they would prefer a Putin like oligarchy and they have the money to persuade people, read Democracy in Chains by Nancy McLean.
So, Peter, you must be supportive of Hamas in Gaza, given that they were “democratically elected representatives”? And not surprisingly, no mention of Iran’s support of terrorism, their continuous threat of Israel’s annihilation, and their general mission of Middle East hegemony by whatever means necessary. The JCPOA, with its open ended opportunity to develop the nuclear weapon, is flawed. Getting this twisted autocracy to understand the wrath of the civilized world against them is the objective of tight sanctions. Hopefully it will lead to regime change. We should be doing everything possible to support this uprising, including tighter sanctions going forward, tied to women’s rights.
Please tell me more about this 'civilized world'. Is it the one that invaded Iraq in 2003, slaughtering the local people by the tens of thousands? Is it the one that destroyed Libya in 2010, an assault begun by a 'civilized' Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who, as reported by CNN, "shared a laugh with a television news reporter moments after hearing deposed Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi had been killed. "We came, we saw, he died," she joked when told of news reports of Qaddafi's death by an aide in between formal interviews."
Is that civilisation?
You are in select company: a defender of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Qaddafi — and probably by extension the Ayatollahs, leaders of Hamas, et.al. — ruthless murderers who killed and terrorized countless innocent. Were you cheering on 9-11? Shame on you.
That is a strange misreading of my comment in which there is not a word of support for Gaddafi's activities. Rather I question your claim that the West represents what you call 'civilisation' when there isn't an iota of evidence that our history and current practices are morally any better than those you criticise.
It’s very hard to take the “Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran” caucus in the US foreign policy establishment and in Congress as having any sincere concern for the Iranian street protests. It reeks of opportunism and cynicism.
As we saw in Iraq, to promote regime-change as US policy is to promote mass civil war and the disintegration of society in which the most ruthless will survive and rise to power. Those brave young liberals, women, and street activists would be the first against the wall.
This is especially true if the collapse of the regime had the meddling fingerprints of foreign powers all over it. This would discredit the very cause that the hawks claim to champion among the older more conservative Iranians in rural areas who sympathy for the cause is crucial if democratic reforms are a possible outcome.
Remember Juan Guaidó in Venezuela as a viable opposition leader against Maduro? He was embraced by the Trump administration—usual suspects John Bolton, Elliott Abrams, Mike Pompeo—and was directly implicated in a comically inept violent coup against Maduro of questionable connection to the Trump administration. Now Guiadó is completely discredited and his own allies have turned on him.
If American and Israeli hawks had an ounce of concern for the Iranian protestors, they would simply cheer from the sidelines but otherwise stay out of it.
Peter you can't win arguments by pointing your finger and saying "you're authoritarian", or you're just a "client state". Word salad and citing Jew-hater Ilhan Omar wins no arguments. Sorry you're still of the rails.
Ilhan Omar is a courageous woman who has the guts to stand up to the apartheid Israeli state of Zionists. There is not the slightest evidence of her being hateful to Jewish people. The Israeli state, on the other hand, practises racism against the Palestinian people and against black Jewish people.
"Racism is integral to Zionism, and we see this not just in the treatment of Palestinians, but also in how they treat Jewish people of African descent. The Zionist project is fundamentally about capitalism, settler-colonialism and maintaining an “ethnically” Jewish state. The Ethiopian Jewish community has existed for thousands of years, tracing its history to the ancient kingdoms of Aksum and the Ethiopian Empire. Many Ethiopian Jews immigrated to Israel in the late 20th century.
Since arriving in Israel, many Ethiopian Jews have faced constant discrimination.Their faith was questioned by rabbis and their communities ostracized from the rest of Israeli society. In 1990, the National Israeli Blood Bank routinely destroyed blood donated by Ethiopian Israelis because they were “afraid that the Ethiopians carried HIV.” There was a cap on the number of Ethiopian Jews entering Israel until relatively recently.
The minority status of the Ethiopian Jewish community creates poor material conditions. They have the highest poverty rate among the Jewish population in Israel and face the highest levels of police violence after Palestinians. Israel calls itself a bastion of human rights and progress, while denying rights to both Palestinians and Ethiopian Jews. The treatment of Ethiopian Jews is completely different from the warm welcome offered to Jewish people from the United States, the United Kingdom, and Australia, for instance."
https://www.liberationnews.org/israels-long-history-of-anti-black-racism/
Peace is readily achievable between Israel and Palestine when Palestinians 1) accept Israel’s right to exist; 2) agree to a state of their own next to Israel; and 3) agree to a “right of return” to a new state of Palestine and not to Israel.
For over 70 years there have been numerous formal and informal efforts to achieve a two state peace, but all have ended with Palestinian rejection. But times are changing as Arab countries refuse to be held hostage by Palestinian intransigence and are normalizing relations with Israel.
When the corrupt, criminal Palestinian leaders stop teaching children that one day they will ‘drive the Jews into the sea’, and instead choose to live side by side in peace, then both peoples can thrive.
Yes Richard, but here are a few different views to yours.
The Great Middle East Peace Process Scam. https://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam
The Two-State Solution – Illusion and Reality By Avi Shlaim
https://www.pij.org/articles/2144/the-twostate-solution--illusion-and-reality
Israel has never had a moral or legal right to exist as a state which privileges Jewish people over all others. You and your Zionist friends will need to accept that your apartheid state must end before peace can be achieved. The Palestinian people's cause is just. The Zionist cause is one of fascism and racism; is that the side you are on?
There will never be a two state solution. Time you accepted this. Sure, there is corruption and criminality in the PA and Hamas - as there is in the apartheid Israeli government. "The former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is reportedly close to reaching a plea bargain in his corruption trial, a development that could mean an unexpectedly swift end to his turbulent political career and once again upend Israeli politics." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/16/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-plea-bargain-trial
The Arab countries, many of whom are long-standing allies of the 'civilized' West, are even more corrupt, criminal and repressive than is apartheid Israel or the PA and Hamas. I doubt you'll find much to praise in them, yet Israel seems to love them.
"All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."
Aren't Jews people?
Do you really imagine that you are the first to suggest this? All rights are conditional - none is absolute. Does the right of the unborn foetus to life supersede that of a pregnant woman's reproductive rights? Likewise, the right of self-determination for Jewish people (and there is no agreement amongst such people as to what determines Jewish identity) cannot be absolute. The right of Palestinian people to not be removed from their homes in 1948 was clearly violated. The right of non-Jewish people (not just Palestinians) to exercise full democratic rights in Israel is continually violated. This does not imply that Jews are lesser people, but the treatment by Zionist settlers of Palestinian people clearly shows what those Zionists think of the human status of Palestinians.
"GENEVA (1 June 2021) – A UN human rights expert condemned attacks on Israel's Palestinian minority by extreme right-wing and vigilante groups, including settlers – at times with the reported backing of security forces - and urged Israel to fully and equally protect all of its citizens without discrimination.
Palestinians citizens of Israel, including the Bedouin, constitute an Arab minority representing about 1.5 million people or 20 percent of the population of Israel and face discrimination in many areas.
"Reports of extreme right-wing violence and disproportional use of force by law enforcement officials during protests in recent weeks, including in Sheikh Jarrah, Damascus Gate and the Al-Aqsa mosque, have led to some of the worst cases of violence against Palestinian citizens of Israel," said Fernand de Varennes, the Special Rapporteur on Minority Issues."
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/06/israel-violence-hate-speech-discrimination-against-palestinian-minority-must
"All rights are conditional - none is absolute"
WOOOWWW.
"Does the right of the unborn foetus to life supersede that of a pregnant woman's reproductive rights? "
Hmmm, why don't you tell me the answer? I'd honestly like to know.
You think you are helping the Palestinian people, but this misguided thinking by you, Peter and your ilk, that one day Israel will change or “get what’s coming to them”, is leaving the Palestinians behind while Israel and much of the Middle East is moving forward and thriving. So, again…shame on you.
The shame is on anyone who supports a viciously racist, fascistic regime governed by Zionists who regard Palestinians as lesser people to be exploited and murdered. That's the side you have chosen to support, Richard. I'm happy to be part of the resistance against you. These are my personal heroes:
"After relentless direct action and a number of arrests, Palestine Action has made business in Britain’s capital inoperable for Israel’s largest weapons company, Elbit Systems. The firm has abandoned its office at 77 Kingsway, leaving Elbit’s London Headquarters permanently closed.
Since 2020, activists have taken action 15 times at the site, disrupting business by blockading, occupying and defacing the property. The campaign culminated in 60 arrests for which activists continue to face trial. Elbit’s exit in London comes just 5 months after it was forced to shut Elbit Ferranti in Oldham."
https://mondoweiss.net/2022/06/israeli-weapons-maker-shuts-london-hq-following-sustained-protest/
Free Palestine!
You’re a loser. You think you’re doing something helpful when you’re nothing but a speck. Elbit Systems will be just fine. Israel will continue to thrive. But Palestinian people will be left behind because of their corrupt leaders and dummies like you who implicitly support them. Shame on you. https://www.elbitsystems-uk.com/
Rebecca you must be very young and impressionable to be so fervently anti-semitic. and a socialist to boot ! The idea that Socialism would bring Liberation is total nonsense and disproven time and again by history.
First of all ... Ethiopian Jews were saved by Israel from wartorn Ethiopia with considerable cost and risk. This is NOT racism. The fact that their Jewish lineage needed proving is only a matter of the Jewish position on conversion. Jews do not encourage conversion and even actively discourage it out of respect for "the other". Contrast this with both Islam and Christianity which are imperialistic with regard to converts and territory. Read the story of Naomi and Ruth - the salient question being not DID Ruth convert, but AT WHAT POINT DID Ruth convert. Read also the commentary of the massacre at Shechem which began with the rape of Dinah and the scheming of the local Shechemites to join the wealthy Hebrew tribe. Both motivations are low,and represent morally low people. The Muslim Arabs in Nablus continue this morally questionable lifestyle today. The massacre, like many episodes of Jewish violence, are self-defensive in nature.
Ilhan Omar is another example of low morality. Who knows if she is ethnically Arab or even Jewish for that matter, since, yes Ethiopian Jews are authentic, and Muslim intolerance for the other is very real. The fact is, Ilhan Omar is a practicing Muslim, and unfortunately, Islam is an inherently bigoted ideology. Half of the Islamic surah and hadith govern non-Muslims; making it political rather than religious. Islam does not tolerate non-Muslim in its midst. Ilhan Omar could be ethnically Jewish but too bad for her and the world at large, she is a practicing Muslim. Her beautiful and refined features are very much like the Ethiopian Jews who are in Israel today. And she is firey and outspoken like many Jews are. But she apparently married her brother to gain immigration benefits and she is full of hateful rhetoric against Jews. But self-hating Jews are also a thing. Peter being a good example.
As for today's Israeli Ethiopian Jews, they are doing just fine overall. It's a common phenomenon that new immigrant groups take a generation or two to acclimate and integrate. Israel does a fantastic job of this process and does not discriminate in housing or support for any of its immigrants. Yes Israelis are generally lighter skinned than Ethiopians but so what ? Do you know any white skinned peoples that live in mud huts today ? NO. White skinned peoples have advanced the living standards of the rest of the world, and for you to criticize this is really shameful. There have been injustices for sure, and on both sides. Black Africans were the source for slaves during the slave trading period and just as guilty and complicit as white skinned peoples.
Let's look now at UN Res 2334, which the anti-semitic Barack Obama , along with his administration's clueless John Kerry and Samantha Powers were instrumental in having adopted. This resolution forbids Jews from living in Judea and Samaria. Now Rebecca, THIS is apartheid written into international law. It will never be accepted in Israel that Jews cannot live in Judea and Samaria. Not only is this outrageously bigoted, it will eventually provoke war in an area where "Palestinians" and Jews have a potential for living in harmony. Or should I say HAD a potential, because today, there is a high potential for violence and even civil war in Judea and Samaria. And you know who will be on the losing end of this war ? The Muslims. So in this sense I agree that the US had a very destructive hand in the affairs of Muslims and Jews in this region.
I ask you, Rebecca, does the world need another Judenrein country such as a fake Palestine would bring ? Palestinian is not an ethnicity like Kurds, Armenians, Sikhs, Turks, Persians, Berbers, etc. There is a long list of ethnicities that the Arab Muslims have colonized, taken lands from, and erased off the face of the earth. The most recent and glaring is the Kurdish people who did not get a nation out of the Yalta conferences, much to the shame of the western powers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Barzani
I suggest that you broaden your scope of reading to Algemeiner, WIN, Mosaic, and JNS if you want a more well-balanced intellectual diet of material to learn about Jews and Israel. Peter Beinart has a strangely narrow and unintellectual viewpoint which is actually damaging to Diaspora Jewry and relations with Israel. Leftist word salad doesn't meet mature standards for political thought and discourse. You need real- world examples of the current events in every country where Islam, Christianity, Hindu, Buddhism and Judaism intersect. Read about the former Indonesian Christian governor who was put in prison for 2 years for saying that Muslims could indeed be governed by a Christian leader. Read about Islamic terrorist separatist groups in Mindanao, Rohingya, England, France, Kashmir, etc. Islam is a political movement that is poison to the world at large. This fact must be known and understood. So Rebecca, grow your intellectual brain instead of letting it shrink with Socialist garbage.
The accusation of anti-Semitism by anyone who supports the apartheid Israel government is ironic, to say the least. That government has its most fervent friends and allies amongst the far right around the world who love that a state can privilege one ethnic/religious group above all others. White supremacy is no better or worse than Jewish supremacy, or German, or any other. Israel was founded by Zionist supremacists. Their racism is opposed by many Jewish people. Are they anti-Semitic, too?
Your claim that Black Ethiopian Jewish people are not victims of widespread racism by white Jewish Israelis is not backed with evidence. Here is some more: "3.5 percent of criminal indictments were filed against Ethiopian Israelis in 2015, more than twice their percentage of the population. Meanwhile, the percentage of indictments filed against Ethiopian minors was four times their ratio of the population. The percentage of Ethiopian minors who end up in prison was nearly 10 times their proportion of the population (comprising 18.5 percent of the inmates in Ofek Prison, as of June 2016)." There is plenty more.
(https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-08-01/ty-article/.premium/panel-police-should-stop-using-stun-guns-in-areas-with-many-ethiopians/0000017f-ef43-ddba-a37f-ef6f93030000)
Being non-religious, I am no supporter of Islamic fundamentalism or its rampant anti-Semitism. I would like to see a world without religion, and I see the horrendous results of sectarianism all around the world. I'm British, and I lived through the times of the Northern Ireland 'Troubles' which were, in part, a result of two religious sects at war. However, your accusation of 'low morality' against Rep. Omar has no evidence either. What does that even mean? Your own words indict you in being a hater of Muslim people.
Not only is militant Islam a 'political movement' but so is evangelical Christianity in the USA which is closely allied to the fascist, Trumpist far right and also to the apartheid Israel government. Your cause is not one any supporter of the international working class would want to see prosper. Capitalism is an utter failure at anything apart from destroying the natural world, increasing inequality, and stealing the wealth that the working class produces. I am proud to have learned to become more socialist over the years, which involved me having to admit I was wrong in many things. It was only the evidence that convinced me. Isn't it time you learned, too?
Rebecca, you can see the decline in Jeremy Corbyn and the Labor Party. Justifiably so !
And maybe you are black and heavily invested in the idea that White Privilege and White Supremacy have any foothold in reality. You have a lot to learn Rebecca. Words like "fascist" , "militant", "apartheid", "white privilege", "liberation", "international working class", ... these have no meaning and are just slogans and word salad that people who can't think straight rely on. Obviously you can't think straight Rebecca. No I didn't say I didn't like Muslims. I think Islam is poison and I clearly distinguish between the person and the ideology. The fact that most Muslims, including Ilhan Omar, acceded to and agree with fundamentalists and jihadist violence is proof positive that most Muslims ARE indeed, infected with the hateful ideology of Islam. But there is a growing apostate movement, which I support. If you haven't listened to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, you should. She is a Somali Muslim apostate and an intellectual who has been embraced by thinking westerners, including myself. She was also a friend of Theo Van Gogh who was murdered by a jihadist. If you want to learn why Islam is poison, just listen to a few of her interviews and find out the danger of Dawa.
The Troubles in Northern Ireland have very little in common with any facts pertaining to Israel, despite the attempts to draw parallels. I have criticisms of Christianity, but it is certainly better and less dangerous to the world than Islam. At least they have the Torah for a moral guide rather than bigoted and violent books like the Quran, Hadith, Surah and Books of Bukhari. Check out The Center for the Study of Political Islam and get some education.
Don’t you get tired of placing anti Israel comments in all of your articles?
It is entirely natural that anyone who wants a better world would be disgusted by the existence and behaviour of the apartheid, ethnocratic state of Israel. It is those who support it that need to question themselves.
"this despotic, savage regime" is responsible for the creation of the educated middle class that will overthrow it. Iran is already more democratic than Israel's allies in the gulf; and if Israel, the occupied territories and Gaza are de facto a single state, then Iran is a more democratic than Israel itself. Iran still has the largest Jewish population in the middle east outside Israel, and a sizable number of Christians. All in all, absent foreign meddling, the Iranian government won't collapse when the guardianship is ended. That's a good thing for Iranians, but it's not what the US or Israel or any of the gulf monarchies want.
Mr. Edenbaum, Iran currently is shooting at its own population because of a political disagreement? I am not aware that this was a Democratic principle. And recently they were shooting at other minorities in Iran (Bulochstanins). And when they are not shooting their on they execute gays.
Does that sound like a Democracy to you? NNR.
The Guardian: "Her death [Mahsa Amini] is the consequence of an increasingly repressive crackdown on women’s rights across the country, after Iran’s hardline president Ebrahim Raisi launched a new hijab decree mandating stricter enforcement of Iran’s laws on women’s dress in public spaces."
Raisi was elected. When was the last election in the Gulf? "Iran currently is shooting at its own population because of a political disagreement?" So I guess you agree with me about Israel.
Iran is officially a "guided democracy". John Stuart Mill defended the same thing for backwards nations with populations that weren't ready for freedom. Most liberals defend the rule of experts. Many oppose freedom of speech. A lot of liberals defend Israel. In 2011 the Israeli government called on the US to guarantee the safety of the Saudi regime
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704330404576291063679488964
So much for reason and enlightenment.
You like to rationalize. Try empiricism.
Mossadegh wasn’t “ democratically “ elected. He was elected by The Shah of Iran. That itself shows the level of your ignorance. If NIAC regime’s mouthpiece retweets your nonsense, we know which side you truly stand with
Your understanding of the history does not appear sufficient. According to Wikipedia: "On 28 April 1951, the Shah appointed Mosaddegh as Prime Minister after the Majlis (Parliament of Iran) nominated Mosaddegh by a vote of 79–12." That is rather similar to the process here in the UK. Our PM, Liz Truss, was recently appointed by the queen after being elected by members of the Conservative party.
We lived in in Sudan as well. Isreal, UAE, Egypt and Saudi with the help of Trump backed the Junta and the militia leaders from day one of the revolution to finally over through the transitional government once the PM Hamadok did not join the Ibrahimc accords publicly and said to leave that to an elected goverment.
yes, another good example
How do you feel about Israel's assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists?
I remember having a (good-natured) disagreement with an anti-sanctions activist on Twitter about this. If I were a fan of the Israeli government I wouldn't be reading your substack, but opposing this kind of targeted killing seems counterproductive. Shouldn't it be seen as an alternative to economic measures that harm the civilian population?