It’s awful but at least the cat’s out of the bag. This has never been about self defense. Like ‘48, like ‘67, ultimately it’s about Israel removing Palestinians and taking the land from the river to the sea. It’s the Zionist project written in capital letters.
In the early aughts, when Israel had resumed settlement construction at a furious pace following the collapse of Oslo, I asked my Zionist friends exactly where the line was - what would Israel have to do to lose their support. When I'd suggest transfer/expulsion of Palestinians, they would respond, "that's not on the table, Israel won't do that." But when I'd push if that would be over the line and they'd have to condemn Israel, they wouldn't really answer - just repeat the same line - Israel won't do that.
Here we are. Israel is doing that, America is helping.
When I was living in Israel and studying at the Arava Institute, having a slow awakening as to the other edge of the sword of what a Jewish State meant, a friend from back home in Canada visited. It's hard to characterize just how positive the emotional and symbolic nature is of being in a Jewish State for people raised on liberal Zionism and Holocaust education. But I spilled my stories of visiting Palestinian friends at their homes in Bethlehem, Nablus, Ramallah, even Arabeh and Haifa: their family stories, their fundamental unfreedom, going through checkpoints, watching settlements erupt on land on which their grandparents used to forage, farm, and graze. I sheepishly asked whether it was right to have created Jewish domination here and dispossessed an entire society.
I'll never forget my friend's response: "What, so you'd rather this just be another shitty Arab country?"
This is the "quiet part" of Zionism, of all colonialism, that you're not supposed to say out loud, but that occasionally got spoken into the microphone by people like Jabotinsky early on. Now it's being shouted into a megaphone.
Excellent commentary. I see the ultra right in Israel and America have already begun attacking you personally, threatening your physical safety because you have spoken eloquently of the moral decay that has poisoned the chalice they drink from. We should not be surprised that an imperialist real estate developer who has bludgeoned ‘his party’ to get in line has now gone after ‘prime’ real estate all over the world. I hope your new book converts one, ten , hundreds, thousands to speak out against the monstrous violations of settler colonialism and imperialism as the results of not doing it are horrifying to contemplate. Please remember we are in your corner as you, being ‘a voice crying in the wilderness’, are attacked and threatened in the attempt to silence you. Thank you for articulating what so many of us who have friends in Israel feel and experience.
Thank you, Peter. Yes, the mad king - the central player in a performance art presidency (The Sequel) - is now apparently fully convinced of his foreign policy chops. Peter Baker in the NYT quotes Jared Kushner as having suggested something similar for Gaza a while ago that did not include the “relocation” - to be exceedingly generous in our description - of Gaza’s population. But I’m thinking of Ezra Klein’s recent observation that The President Show is about “flooding the zone” with outrageous announcements simply to obscure MAGA’s more serious and nefarious undertakings, i.e., Elon Musk’s meanderings through the federal government. According to Klein, it’s all in keeping with the Steve Bannon playbook to promote outrage over unserious policy proposals so the real work can take place more efficiently under the cover of darkness. This is cover and distraction while: firing independent prosecutors; eliminating the independence of, and reducing the reach of, USAID; confirming unqualified toadies at various government agencies; pushing tax cuts through for the oligarchs who are backing him. Yes, it’s another monstrosity, another outrage and another very sad day for America. Any organization or individual steeping forward to endorse this absurdity loses all credibility and authority.
Today we have Steven Erlanger in the NYT describe this nonsense as “an opening bid” that could “disrupt a tired diplomatic paradigm.” Erlanger certainly understands diplomacy better than I ever will, but I don’t see how that description can be applied here. This is a proposed land grab by a pudding-head demagogue. Doesn’t constructive, effective diplomacy arise out of behind-the-scenes negotiations that are carefully considered and meticulously prepared - negotiations that take into account realities on the ground? I understand that traditional diplomacy doesn’t have a stellar history in the Middle East. Even so, are we going to excuse the destructive, impractical, destabilizing musings of a Putin wannabe as a serious negotiating tactic? Words matter, especially when they come from the Oval Office; they have a lasting impact. Helping to normalize The President Show as it caters to Netanyahu and his despicable racist compatriots won’t help us climb out of this mess.
Yes, it's awful and you are right about the whole history, Peter. But my great fear is that this is one of Trump's most effective distractions, as he/Musk take control of the finances and the future of our entire country.
It’s probably safe to assume the US will never take over Gaza and Trump is just talking nonsense, but it breaks the taboo and gives a green light for the Israeli government to push for mass expulsion now with broad popular US support.
Parenthetically, that taboo is broken for Putin to expel pro-European Ukrainians in the Russian-controlled eastern oblasts and for China to take measures against Taiwanese, all following the blueprint of Trump. It’s a post-liberal world order now—outrage over shattered political and moral norms and appeals to international law will fall increasingly on deaf ears.
Peter, I wish you would cite Mikhael Mannekin's work stating that these right wing religious Jews have dropped the moral bar of the Talmud.........and the danger of people thinking that is true religious Judaism.
At this stage I found it hard to believe that this will actually happen. Egypt and Jordan totally reject accepting Palestinians from Gaza, and as Republican Senator Lindsey Graham said, “We’ll see what our Arab friends say about that,” and “I think most South Carolinians would not be excited about sending Americans to take over Gaza.”
worryingly, my mind hears what they are thinking, "Well, if Egypt and Jordan will not accept Palestinians from Gaza, we (Israel's gov't, Trump, etc.) will have to find another way to be rid of them off of this land." And their solution is the end of the horrors we have been witnessing
Right now in the train to Copenhagen to listen to Francesca Albanese's talk. I wonder what she will say about Trump's declarations. She is usually quite blunt.
is Israel doing anything different than any other European country in history? 'lebensraum' was one European's term for it. Is it something innate in European-originated power structures that invite fascistic behaviors, of which conflict is core dynamic?
Once again, thank you Peter. This has ben encroaching for years. I recall AIPAC supporters saying things like "we support whatever government is in power and however their policies. We have no right to judge or tell them how to govern or carry out the policies they think are necessary".
It’s awful but at least the cat’s out of the bag. This has never been about self defense. Like ‘48, like ‘67, ultimately it’s about Israel removing Palestinians and taking the land from the river to the sea. It’s the Zionist project written in capital letters.
100%.
In the early aughts, when Israel had resumed settlement construction at a furious pace following the collapse of Oslo, I asked my Zionist friends exactly where the line was - what would Israel have to do to lose their support. When I'd suggest transfer/expulsion of Palestinians, they would respond, "that's not on the table, Israel won't do that." But when I'd push if that would be over the line and they'd have to condemn Israel, they wouldn't really answer - just repeat the same line - Israel won't do that.
Here we are. Israel is doing that, America is helping.
When I was living in Israel and studying at the Arava Institute, having a slow awakening as to the other edge of the sword of what a Jewish State meant, a friend from back home in Canada visited. It's hard to characterize just how positive the emotional and symbolic nature is of being in a Jewish State for people raised on liberal Zionism and Holocaust education. But I spilled my stories of visiting Palestinian friends at their homes in Bethlehem, Nablus, Ramallah, even Arabeh and Haifa: their family stories, their fundamental unfreedom, going through checkpoints, watching settlements erupt on land on which their grandparents used to forage, farm, and graze. I sheepishly asked whether it was right to have created Jewish domination here and dispossessed an entire society.
I'll never forget my friend's response: "What, so you'd rather this just be another shitty Arab country?"
This is the "quiet part" of Zionism, of all colonialism, that you're not supposed to say out loud, but that occasionally got spoken into the microphone by people like Jabotinsky early on. Now it's being shouted into a megaphone.
Excellent commentary. I see the ultra right in Israel and America have already begun attacking you personally, threatening your physical safety because you have spoken eloquently of the moral decay that has poisoned the chalice they drink from. We should not be surprised that an imperialist real estate developer who has bludgeoned ‘his party’ to get in line has now gone after ‘prime’ real estate all over the world. I hope your new book converts one, ten , hundreds, thousands to speak out against the monstrous violations of settler colonialism and imperialism as the results of not doing it are horrifying to contemplate. Please remember we are in your corner as you, being ‘a voice crying in the wilderness’, are attacked and threatened in the attempt to silence you. Thank you for articulating what so many of us who have friends in Israel feel and experience.
Thank you, Peter. Yes, the mad king - the central player in a performance art presidency (The Sequel) - is now apparently fully convinced of his foreign policy chops. Peter Baker in the NYT quotes Jared Kushner as having suggested something similar for Gaza a while ago that did not include the “relocation” - to be exceedingly generous in our description - of Gaza’s population. But I’m thinking of Ezra Klein’s recent observation that The President Show is about “flooding the zone” with outrageous announcements simply to obscure MAGA’s more serious and nefarious undertakings, i.e., Elon Musk’s meanderings through the federal government. According to Klein, it’s all in keeping with the Steve Bannon playbook to promote outrage over unserious policy proposals so the real work can take place more efficiently under the cover of darkness. This is cover and distraction while: firing independent prosecutors; eliminating the independence of, and reducing the reach of, USAID; confirming unqualified toadies at various government agencies; pushing tax cuts through for the oligarchs who are backing him. Yes, it’s another monstrosity, another outrage and another very sad day for America. Any organization or individual steeping forward to endorse this absurdity loses all credibility and authority.
Today we have Steven Erlanger in the NYT describe this nonsense as “an opening bid” that could “disrupt a tired diplomatic paradigm.” Erlanger certainly understands diplomacy better than I ever will, but I don’t see how that description can be applied here. This is a proposed land grab by a pudding-head demagogue. Doesn’t constructive, effective diplomacy arise out of behind-the-scenes negotiations that are carefully considered and meticulously prepared - negotiations that take into account realities on the ground? I understand that traditional diplomacy doesn’t have a stellar history in the Middle East. Even so, are we going to excuse the destructive, impractical, destabilizing musings of a Putin wannabe as a serious negotiating tactic? Words matter, especially when they come from the Oval Office; they have a lasting impact. Helping to normalize The President Show as it caters to Netanyahu and his despicable racist compatriots won’t help us climb out of this mess.
Yes, it's awful and you are right about the whole history, Peter. But my great fear is that this is one of Trump's most effective distractions, as he/Musk take control of the finances and the future of our entire country.
It’s probably safe to assume the US will never take over Gaza and Trump is just talking nonsense, but it breaks the taboo and gives a green light for the Israeli government to push for mass expulsion now with broad popular US support.
Parenthetically, that taboo is broken for Putin to expel pro-European Ukrainians in the Russian-controlled eastern oblasts and for China to take measures against Taiwanese, all following the blueprint of Trump. It’s a post-liberal world order now—outrage over shattered political and moral norms and appeals to international law will fall increasingly on deaf ears.
Canadian here. This is terrifying. Just when you thought things couldn't get worse....Thank you, Peter, you are the voice of reason.
And he. doesn't even offer to buy Gaza! which he doesn't want for the U.S., he wants it for Trump, to put up resort hotels.
🙏 for the context and insights, Peter. Between this and Ezra Klein’s https://open.spotify.com/episode/2SISjBPS03ELQTdlTvzpfp?si=Goc9k4pRSlaXJHK4oTR5eQ&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A3oB5noYIwEB2dMAREj2F7S we have a pretty complete 30k view of what’s going on with the mad king and his m.o. right now.
The horror continues, and escalates. And it’s personal for king T, as is everything. Beach front property for a trump golf resort.
Peter, I wish you would cite Mikhael Mannekin's work stating that these right wing religious Jews have dropped the moral bar of the Talmud.........and the danger of people thinking that is true religious Judaism.
At this stage I found it hard to believe that this will actually happen. Egypt and Jordan totally reject accepting Palestinians from Gaza, and as Republican Senator Lindsey Graham said, “We’ll see what our Arab friends say about that,” and “I think most South Carolinians would not be excited about sending Americans to take over Gaza.”
worryingly, my mind hears what they are thinking, "Well, if Egypt and Jordan will not accept Palestinians from Gaza, we (Israel's gov't, Trump, etc.) will have to find another way to be rid of them off of this land." And their solution is the end of the horrors we have been witnessing
Right now in the train to Copenhagen to listen to Francesca Albanese's talk. I wonder what she will say about Trump's declarations. She is usually quite blunt.
3 suggestions for the Erev Shabas interview:
Isabel Kerschner
Daniel Marwecki
Ilan Pappé
is Israel doing anything different than any other European country in history? 'lebensraum' was one European's term for it. Is it something innate in European-originated power structures that invite fascistic behaviors, of which conflict is core dynamic?
Once again, thank you Peter. This has ben encroaching for years. I recall AIPAC supporters saying things like "we support whatever government is in power and however their policies. We have no right to judge or tell them how to govern or carry out the policies they think are necessary".