Our Zoom call this week, for paid subscribers, will be at our regular time, Friday at Noon EDT. Our guests will be Jeremy Kalmanofsky, Rabbi of Ansche Chesed, a conservative synagogue in Manhattan, and Eva Borgwardt, political director of If Not Now. Rabbi Kalmanofsky recently made news for responding to Israel’s new government by deciding his congregation would
I'm no fan of the current Israeli government, but I don't see in that Twitter thread anyone "celebrating" the Nakba. The people quoted in it are certainly attempting to leverage the specter of the Nakba to incentivize Palestine to stop killing kids (which we all know is a waste of time, because it's in the Palestinian Arab DNA), but I don't see much of a difference between that and Palestinians constantly bringing up the Holocaust and comparing Jews to Nazis.
I hear you that you're upset about Likud politicians using the Nakba as a threat. You know what I'm upset about? Islamic Jihad firing over a thousands rockets into Israel and getting more people killed. Maybe you can use your platform to speak out against that instead. Seems a bit more of a pressing issue than what Likud "basically" "essentially" "might" do.
Interesting. I hadn't followed this development closely. Zionist commenters on this site, who seem to have little better to do with their time, are clearly struggling to justify both the racist, apartheid Israeli state's increasingly far-right rhetoric and, of course, the Nakba itself which they will never acknowledge. The open and obvious facts of history about this appalling (and continuing) atrocity are too much for Zionists to accept, but it is pleasing to note that the rest of the world is not so narrowminded. The anti-Palestinian narrative has become threadbare in its cruelty, so much that even the mainstream US media (though not really the UK media here, as yet) is slowly starting to feature more Palestinian voices and to treat Zionists with more scepticism.
No, Peter, 750,000 Arabs were not expelled. The majority of Arabs who left did so voluntarily, driven by various factors such as fear, anticipation, and personal choices. The outbreak of war motivated people to leave their homes, choosing to relocate temporarily until the situation improved. Arab leaders advised Palestinian communities to leave until the Arab armies successfully defeated Israel and many Arabs left, anticipating a short-lived absence.
And yet...most Arabs stayed and today make up 21% of the population of Israel. These Arab-Israeli citizens when polled whether they would become Palestinians should there be a Palestinian state, overwhelmingly say they would remain Israeli.
There is no "right of return". This is a made up term by the Palestinians. The definition of "refugee" applies only to those who were displaced in 1948 and Israel has said they would make accomodations for them. The only reason that after 75 years the Palestinians do not have their own country living in peace next to Israel is Palestinian rejection. For this to change, it's up to the Palestinians to unequivcally state that they 1) support Israel's right to exist; 2) accept their own country living in peace next to Israel; and 3) the only "right of return" is to a new state of Palestine.
Peter, just like you usually do when you talk about the Nakba, you can't remain consistent even within your own piece.
Paragraph 2: [The Nakba is] "the 75th anniversary of the expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians between 1947 and 1949. "
Paragraph 4: "So, what Jackie Rosen does is she completely ignores the fact, right, that 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled in fear."
Which is it, Peter? Were 750,000 Palestinians expelled, or were they partially expelled and partially fled in fear? If you can't even keep your own narrative consistent, why should anyone give any credibility to anything that you're saying?
For 75 years since the faithful UN Resolution 181, Palestinians have lived in terror and fear. In the 1948 Nakba, which followed the UN partition resolution, Israel conquered 78% of Palestine and expelled most of its population almost 800,000 people, from their homes, villages and towns. It also made the remainder of the Palestinians still under its control second-class citizens and discriminated against Mizrahi (Arab and Sephardic) Jews in what it defined as a Jewish state – not a state of its citizens; today at least 20% of the citizens of Israel are not Jewish. The Palestinian refugees were never allowed to return home, despite UN Resolution 194 of December 1948, and countless UN resolutions since, affirming their right of return. Today over six million Palestinians and their descendants are refugees into the third generation.
In 1967, the remainder of historic Palestine was occupied by Israel. Every Palestinian in the Occupied Territories of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza has lost his/her human and political rights under a brutal settler-colonial military occupation. After 1967 there followed a fast colonisation project, in violation of international law and the 4th Geneva Convention, of settling Israeli Jews in the newly conquered territories, expelling and dispossessing Palestinians even further.
Israel has since disregarded all UN resolutions demanding it withdraws from the Occupied Territories and has continued to build illegal settlements, roads and army camps. It has continued to suppress brutally and dispossess the Palestinian population under its military rule. Internationally Israel has set up powerful lobbies which have sought to silence the voice of reason among Jews across the world. Domestically it has constructed a highly militarised society, armed-to-teeth with weapons of mass destruction which renders the situation in Palestine-Israel extremely volatile and highly dangerous not only to Palestinians but also Israeli Jews.
I find this concept of denial fascinating. Not just in this situation, but as a human pattern and I’m wondering if anyone can shed more light on this for me psychologically and/or culturally. I agree with what Peter has said here, and I’ve also been looking at this dynamic within my own culture for awhile. I grew up in Alabama and was raised as an Evangelical Conservative and Christian Zionist. I’ve lived in NY for twenty years and would now say I’m none of those things, but I still see denial take shape in The North as well as liberal circles too. I ended up studying theology and the more I studied theology, the more progressive I became and anti-imperialist in any form. All that to say, in these questions and studies of my own American culture(even in different subcultures within the whole), denial keeps coming up... particularly when it comes to the idea of systemic racism (which I think America and Israel share at this point.. though with different particularities). This is not just true in The South, but also true in The North (Long Island is the most racist place I’ve ever lived in for instance) and across the country.
I think it’s really interesting to hear Peter compare Israel’s narrative with America’s, and no surprise America’s takes on more if this concept of denial. I mean it is a dominant trait in American society.. not just with racism, but American Exceptionalism, The American Myth, age, disconnection with our bodies, the earth, so many things.. the list goes on. My question is.. why??
I haven’t finished reading “Albion’s Seed” but anyone who has or has other resources/ideas as to how we have developed this particular trait? What are the roots? We are seeing this at play in other countries like India, Russia.. I mean there’s a lot, but it seems particularly to be a long lived practice and key feature of America. Why is that? Is it mainly about the slave trade and indigenous genocide and colonialism or is it deeper? It seems to me it must be even for those things to have been able to exist! I can talk about this on a theological level, but I want to know more from a material level. Any help?
There is a Zen Buddhist monk named Angel Kyodo Williams who said something really profound about this “apocalypse” (which doesn’t the end of the world.. means “unveiling” end of an age beginning of a new one..every era and individual has one..or a few..haha) America has been experiencing the last number of years. She said what’s being exposed and ending in this current apocalypse is “denial.” Personally, I found that hitting the nail on the head and why we’re seeing a massive political backlash to that. This is also related to Israel-Palestine because American denial empowers that conflict to continue... not just denial about what’s happening, but also denial about our own morality (or lack there of).
So this is a long comment/question, but something I wonder about often and curious if anyone has thoughts/ideas/resources on. Thanks!
"I heard Rabbi Kalmanofsky and Eva talk on a recent panel in Chicago and was impressed by their thoughtful and clarifying disagreements."
Thanks Peter, for the link to the Chicago debate. I found it very interesting, and look forward to seeing and hearing next Fridays zoom call with the Rabbi and Eva.
I'm no fan of the current Israeli government, but I don't see in that Twitter thread anyone "celebrating" the Nakba. The people quoted in it are certainly attempting to leverage the specter of the Nakba to incentivize Palestine to stop killing kids (which we all know is a waste of time, because it's in the Palestinian Arab DNA), but I don't see much of a difference between that and Palestinians constantly bringing up the Holocaust and comparing Jews to Nazis.
I hear you that you're upset about Likud politicians using the Nakba as a threat. You know what I'm upset about? Islamic Jihad firing over a thousands rockets into Israel and getting more people killed. Maybe you can use your platform to speak out against that instead. Seems a bit more of a pressing issue than what Likud "basically" "essentially" "might" do.
Interesting. I hadn't followed this development closely. Zionist commenters on this site, who seem to have little better to do with their time, are clearly struggling to justify both the racist, apartheid Israeli state's increasingly far-right rhetoric and, of course, the Nakba itself which they will never acknowledge. The open and obvious facts of history about this appalling (and continuing) atrocity are too much for Zionists to accept, but it is pleasing to note that the rest of the world is not so narrowminded. The anti-Palestinian narrative has become threadbare in its cruelty, so much that even the mainstream US media (though not really the UK media here, as yet) is slowly starting to feature more Palestinian voices and to treat Zionists with more scepticism.
No, Peter, 750,000 Arabs were not expelled. The majority of Arabs who left did so voluntarily, driven by various factors such as fear, anticipation, and personal choices. The outbreak of war motivated people to leave their homes, choosing to relocate temporarily until the situation improved. Arab leaders advised Palestinian communities to leave until the Arab armies successfully defeated Israel and many Arabs left, anticipating a short-lived absence.
And yet...most Arabs stayed and today make up 21% of the population of Israel. These Arab-Israeli citizens when polled whether they would become Palestinians should there be a Palestinian state, overwhelmingly say they would remain Israeli.
There is no "right of return". This is a made up term by the Palestinians. The definition of "refugee" applies only to those who were displaced in 1948 and Israel has said they would make accomodations for them. The only reason that after 75 years the Palestinians do not have their own country living in peace next to Israel is Palestinian rejection. For this to change, it's up to the Palestinians to unequivcally state that they 1) support Israel's right to exist; 2) accept their own country living in peace next to Israel; and 3) the only "right of return" is to a new state of Palestine.
Peter, just like you usually do when you talk about the Nakba, you can't remain consistent even within your own piece.
Paragraph 2: [The Nakba is] "the 75th anniversary of the expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians between 1947 and 1949. "
Paragraph 4: "So, what Jackie Rosen does is she completely ignores the fact, right, that 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled in fear."
Which is it, Peter? Were 750,000 Palestinians expelled, or were they partially expelled and partially fled in fear? If you can't even keep your own narrative consistent, why should anyone give any credibility to anything that you're saying?
Peter. Looking forward to Friday, If Not Now is an amazing effort and is the future.
The Nakba is truly ongoing event. Here is what I wrote a few days ago as Gaza was being bombed by the "most moral army in the world.".
Don’t cry for me. Cry for yourselves.
(By Sam Bahour)
https://sbahour.medium.com/dont-cry-for-me-cry-for-yourselves-d3aa1ed58e64?sk=697246c9d08451251e996634ad05e672
For 75 years since the faithful UN Resolution 181, Palestinians have lived in terror and fear. In the 1948 Nakba, which followed the UN partition resolution, Israel conquered 78% of Palestine and expelled most of its population almost 800,000 people, from their homes, villages and towns. It also made the remainder of the Palestinians still under its control second-class citizens and discriminated against Mizrahi (Arab and Sephardic) Jews in what it defined as a Jewish state – not a state of its citizens; today at least 20% of the citizens of Israel are not Jewish. The Palestinian refugees were never allowed to return home, despite UN Resolution 194 of December 1948, and countless UN resolutions since, affirming their right of return. Today over six million Palestinians and their descendants are refugees into the third generation.
In 1967, the remainder of historic Palestine was occupied by Israel. Every Palestinian in the Occupied Territories of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza has lost his/her human and political rights under a brutal settler-colonial military occupation. After 1967 there followed a fast colonisation project, in violation of international law and the 4th Geneva Convention, of settling Israeli Jews in the newly conquered territories, expelling and dispossessing Palestinians even further.
Israel has since disregarded all UN resolutions demanding it withdraws from the Occupied Territories and has continued to build illegal settlements, roads and army camps. It has continued to suppress brutally and dispossess the Palestinian population under its military rule. Internationally Israel has set up powerful lobbies which have sought to silence the voice of reason among Jews across the world. Domestically it has constructed a highly militarised society, armed-to-teeth with weapons of mass destruction which renders the situation in Palestine-Israel extremely volatile and highly dangerous not only to Palestinians but also Israeli Jews.
I find this concept of denial fascinating. Not just in this situation, but as a human pattern and I’m wondering if anyone can shed more light on this for me psychologically and/or culturally. I agree with what Peter has said here, and I’ve also been looking at this dynamic within my own culture for awhile. I grew up in Alabama and was raised as an Evangelical Conservative and Christian Zionist. I’ve lived in NY for twenty years and would now say I’m none of those things, but I still see denial take shape in The North as well as liberal circles too. I ended up studying theology and the more I studied theology, the more progressive I became and anti-imperialist in any form. All that to say, in these questions and studies of my own American culture(even in different subcultures within the whole), denial keeps coming up... particularly when it comes to the idea of systemic racism (which I think America and Israel share at this point.. though with different particularities). This is not just true in The South, but also true in The North (Long Island is the most racist place I’ve ever lived in for instance) and across the country.
I think it’s really interesting to hear Peter compare Israel’s narrative with America’s, and no surprise America’s takes on more if this concept of denial. I mean it is a dominant trait in American society.. not just with racism, but American Exceptionalism, The American Myth, age, disconnection with our bodies, the earth, so many things.. the list goes on. My question is.. why??
I haven’t finished reading “Albion’s Seed” but anyone who has or has other resources/ideas as to how we have developed this particular trait? What are the roots? We are seeing this at play in other countries like India, Russia.. I mean there’s a lot, but it seems particularly to be a long lived practice and key feature of America. Why is that? Is it mainly about the slave trade and indigenous genocide and colonialism or is it deeper? It seems to me it must be even for those things to have been able to exist! I can talk about this on a theological level, but I want to know more from a material level. Any help?
There is a Zen Buddhist monk named Angel Kyodo Williams who said something really profound about this “apocalypse” (which doesn’t the end of the world.. means “unveiling” end of an age beginning of a new one..every era and individual has one..or a few..haha) America has been experiencing the last number of years. She said what’s being exposed and ending in this current apocalypse is “denial.” Personally, I found that hitting the nail on the head and why we’re seeing a massive political backlash to that. This is also related to Israel-Palestine because American denial empowers that conflict to continue... not just denial about what’s happening, but also denial about our own morality (or lack there of).
So this is a long comment/question, but something I wonder about often and curious if anyone has thoughts/ideas/resources on. Thanks!
Thank you Peter. The comments prove the value of what you have said here.
Great video as usual.
You are defending a racist, apartheid state that murders women and children, good luck with that.
"I heard Rabbi Kalmanofsky and Eva talk on a recent panel in Chicago and was impressed by their thoughtful and clarifying disagreements."
Thanks Peter, for the link to the Chicago debate. I found it very interesting, and look forward to seeing and hearing next Fridays zoom call with the Rabbi and Eva.