And you left unsaid the damage it has all done to Israel. The damage to its reputation, the years it will now spend as a pariah state, the ease with which hatred of Israel for what it has done will slip into antisemitism, the damage to the soldiers who did what they did and their supporters who will continue defending the indefensible.
Has it failed? It has made Gaza almost uninhabitable. It has made the people miserable. It has kept Netanyahu out of prison and in power. It has given Israel an excuse to kill 4% of the population. I was surprised the percentage wasn't higher. So maybe it has accomplished what a lot of people wanted.
Yes and it was so clearly never their real purpose. It was their STATED purpose their domestic and international propaganda purpose. Their real purpose was always to eliminate the Palestinians, erase them and their culture etc. Not a war, an extermination as Norman Finkelstein’ mother said, not a war, a genocidal campaign as Francesca Albanese recently said and as many many others have recognized for many months.
And now they will put them all in concentration camps until they can cast them out while finishing off the elimination of Palestinians in the West Bank.
Thank you for this. In my imagination there would one day be some kind of Nuremberg trial for the people behind our illegal and immoral wars. (I count this Israeli genocide as part of that since it has been financed primarily by the United States). But, of course, it's the fact that we never hold anyone accountable that has allowed us to go on and on from one violation of international law to the next, from financing or perpetrating war crimes in one situation to the next, with massive numbers of people suffering and dying as a result. I think this is part of a stream of such violations including our invasion of Iraq and torture of prisoners, etc. The perpetrators and planners go unpunished even while ultimately all but admitting failure and defeat in their own terms (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.). Then they walk away casually and are never held accountable just as you are speaking about in the case of Israel's war crimes against Gaza. Worse still, very often these perpetrators continue to support and commit further war crimes and violations of international law. That is what lack of accountability means.
Ms. Oxfeld makes many excellent points. Neither Bush nor Cheney were ever held to account for the tens of thousands Iraqis who were killed in the Iraq War. Those two should be tried as war criminals, as should Netanyahu.
This is a very naive take. Israel's strategy for the Palestinian issue has been for years now to 'manage' the conflict, not totally solve or defet it. In that sense this war was a success for them. Gaza became uninhabitable. Some Palestinians in gaza will leave, some will stay and in general the birth rate will decline. It will take the Palestinians atleast another 10- 15 years to wage another war with israel. Israel will have more quiet time to strengthen its economy and military. The benifet is obviously on the israeli side
It was clear before, on and after October 7 that no military operation would be successful in Gaza. Some might say the purpose was to ensure that the attacks on Israel on October 7 could never happen again. But Hamas did not need an army to plan and execute those attacks. Israel did not adequately defend its border because it shifted resources to the West Bank in order to appease and support the expansionist plans of the right wing lawmakers. Besides, the people in the south did not vote for Bibi and the reduced defense was payback, albeit cynically and tragically. If the border was properly defended, there would have been no reason to destroy Gaza as Israel has done. We have been explained to for years how entrenched Hamas is in all aspects of Gaza society. They have survived and grown since every Israeli military misadventure there. Why would this time be any different? And it hasn’t been. It would be interesting to calculate the cost of killing every Hamas fighter so far, not to mention Israeli soldiers. And we haven’t even begun to touch on the civilian lives lost. There are tunnels and Hamas infrastructure in Gaza that Israel may never find. Weapons continue to arrive or be manufactured right in Gaza. So Hamas will be there forever and the stated goals of the war will never be achieved, but the cost will have been massive.
The profound tragedy and shame of our time is how the United States has been a major active player in this genocide, and continues to treat our international courts and United Nations as second class citizens under our colonial rule. There is NO accountability.
Thank you, Peter, for this moving lament for the people of Palestine, and this call for justice and accountability in the face of the senseless, useless, unspeakable massacre in Gaza. It is heartbreaking to witness this destruction: thank you for giving voice to the dead, the silenced, the grieving, the terrified, the broken-hearted among us. Thank you for your thoughtful, heartfelt work.
Oh, I would love to know which podcasts you listen to that you “disagree with” (Dan Senor for sure, but what else?). I actually really like to do the same, and in this case, you started out as one of the person I listened to with which I disagreed with. But while doing so I came around changing my mind a couple of months ago. 😅
And it's not over yet - by any means. It's not over. Many more will suffer and die, there is still talk of moving the population from Gaza, Israel may resettle Gaza, take over large portions of the territory. Was that the real goal? And while Gaza is now a wasteland, Palestinians are suffering in the West Bank as it's being annexed. There will be no accounting. And the Palestinians know this, just as the mass expulsions in 1948 were ignored by much of the world. This has been and an arrogant, vile, and brutal continuation of the elimination of Palestinian society. Horrifying. But, thanks Peter for your honesty and insights.
Thank you Peter. We will give what we can today, and we will keep asking these questions, and we will stand with Palestinians, and we point out lies when we can.
Cheeto Is Killing People But It’s None of Your Damned Business So Butt Out
With their savage draconian policies the Nazis have now killed at least 12 and probably more innocent people in ICE custody For the GOP/Nazi’s in Congress who just gave a huge bonus to ICE with the recent budget bill, it’s just another day at the office These women and men who are complicit in this terrorist organization should be reported to the International Criminal Court for murder, just like Putin has been
This complete and utter disregard for human life should be condemned from every sector of our “civil” society And now Congressional oversight by Democrats to legally visit the concentration camps, these efforts are thwarted and turned away Civic groups charged with oversight have either been terminated or cut back to Cheeto loyalists
So America has finally become Nazi Germany Send the Jews/Immigrants to concentration camps like Dachau or Auschwitz and let them die
WE the People Cannot Stand for This Barbaric Behavior in America Protest Protest Protest
And you left unsaid the damage it has all done to Israel. The damage to its reputation, the years it will now spend as a pariah state, the ease with which hatred of Israel for what it has done will slip into antisemitism, the damage to the soldiers who did what they did and their supporters who will continue defending the indefensible.
Has it failed? It has made Gaza almost uninhabitable. It has made the people miserable. It has kept Netanyahu out of prison and in power. It has given Israel an excuse to kill 4% of the population. I was surprised the percentage wasn't higher. So maybe it has accomplished what a lot of people wanted.
Yes and it was so clearly never their real purpose. It was their STATED purpose their domestic and international propaganda purpose. Their real purpose was always to eliminate the Palestinians, erase them and their culture etc. Not a war, an extermination as Norman Finkelstein’ mother said, not a war, a genocidal campaign as Francesca Albanese recently said and as many many others have recognized for many months.
Yup.
And now they will put them all in concentration camps until they can cast them out while finishing off the elimination of Palestinians in the West Bank.
I know that is possible, but I hope with everything in me that there will be a better resolution.
Thank you for this. In my imagination there would one day be some kind of Nuremberg trial for the people behind our illegal and immoral wars. (I count this Israeli genocide as part of that since it has been financed primarily by the United States). But, of course, it's the fact that we never hold anyone accountable that has allowed us to go on and on from one violation of international law to the next, from financing or perpetrating war crimes in one situation to the next, with massive numbers of people suffering and dying as a result. I think this is part of a stream of such violations including our invasion of Iraq and torture of prisoners, etc. The perpetrators and planners go unpunished even while ultimately all but admitting failure and defeat in their own terms (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.). Then they walk away casually and are never held accountable just as you are speaking about in the case of Israel's war crimes against Gaza. Worse still, very often these perpetrators continue to support and commit further war crimes and violations of international law. That is what lack of accountability means.
Ms. Oxfeld makes many excellent points. Neither Bush nor Cheney were ever held to account for the tens of thousands Iraqis who were killed in the Iraq War. Those two should be tried as war criminals, as should Netanyahu.
i can feel you feeling it all, peter. the outrage, the pain, the sorrow. that's what it will take for us to even begin to heal together.
🤬💔🙏🏼 The karma of this is going to deeply hurt all of us.
Thank you Peter. Israel has gone mad as the US president is mad and the world is becoming a sad place to be.
Excellent reporting on mainstream Israeli reporters-"Now They Tell Us".
If this does not change peoples' minds, what will? So tragic. No words
to describe anger and heartache but thanks for your thoughtful
Notebook.
This is a very naive take. Israel's strategy for the Palestinian issue has been for years now to 'manage' the conflict, not totally solve or defet it. In that sense this war was a success for them. Gaza became uninhabitable. Some Palestinians in gaza will leave, some will stay and in general the birth rate will decline. It will take the Palestinians atleast another 10- 15 years to wage another war with israel. Israel will have more quiet time to strengthen its economy and military. The benifet is obviously on the israeli side
It was clear before, on and after October 7 that no military operation would be successful in Gaza. Some might say the purpose was to ensure that the attacks on Israel on October 7 could never happen again. But Hamas did not need an army to plan and execute those attacks. Israel did not adequately defend its border because it shifted resources to the West Bank in order to appease and support the expansionist plans of the right wing lawmakers. Besides, the people in the south did not vote for Bibi and the reduced defense was payback, albeit cynically and tragically. If the border was properly defended, there would have been no reason to destroy Gaza as Israel has done. We have been explained to for years how entrenched Hamas is in all aspects of Gaza society. They have survived and grown since every Israeli military misadventure there. Why would this time be any different? And it hasn’t been. It would be interesting to calculate the cost of killing every Hamas fighter so far, not to mention Israeli soldiers. And we haven’t even begun to touch on the civilian lives lost. There are tunnels and Hamas infrastructure in Gaza that Israel may never find. Weapons continue to arrive or be manufactured right in Gaza. So Hamas will be there forever and the stated goals of the war will never be achieved, but the cost will have been massive.
The profound tragedy and shame of our time is how the United States has been a major active player in this genocide, and continues to treat our international courts and United Nations as second class citizens under our colonial rule. There is NO accountability.
Thank you, Peter, for this moving lament for the people of Palestine, and this call for justice and accountability in the face of the senseless, useless, unspeakable massacre in Gaza. It is heartbreaking to witness this destruction: thank you for giving voice to the dead, the silenced, the grieving, the terrified, the broken-hearted among us. Thank you for your thoughtful, heartfelt work.
Oh, I would love to know which podcasts you listen to that you “disagree with” (Dan Senor for sure, but what else?). I actually really like to do the same, and in this case, you started out as one of the person I listened to with which I disagreed with. But while doing so I came around changing my mind a couple of months ago. 😅
And it's not over yet - by any means. It's not over. Many more will suffer and die, there is still talk of moving the population from Gaza, Israel may resettle Gaza, take over large portions of the territory. Was that the real goal? And while Gaza is now a wasteland, Palestinians are suffering in the West Bank as it's being annexed. There will be no accounting. And the Palestinians know this, just as the mass expulsions in 1948 were ignored by much of the world. This has been and an arrogant, vile, and brutal continuation of the elimination of Palestinian society. Horrifying. But, thanks Peter for your honesty and insights.
Thank you Peter. We will give what we can today, and we will keep asking these questions, and we will stand with Palestinians, and we point out lies when we can.
Cheeto Is Killing People But It’s None of Your Damned Business So Butt Out
With their savage draconian policies the Nazis have now killed at least 12 and probably more innocent people in ICE custody For the GOP/Nazi’s in Congress who just gave a huge bonus to ICE with the recent budget bill, it’s just another day at the office These women and men who are complicit in this terrorist organization should be reported to the International Criminal Court for murder, just like Putin has been
This complete and utter disregard for human life should be condemned from every sector of our “civil” society And now Congressional oversight by Democrats to legally visit the concentration camps, these efforts are thwarted and turned away Civic groups charged with oversight have either been terminated or cut back to Cheeto loyalists
So America has finally become Nazi Germany Send the Jews/Immigrants to concentration camps like Dachau or Auschwitz and let them die
WE the People Cannot Stand for This Barbaric Behavior in America Protest Protest Protest