Peter, I have been listening to your weekly podcasts and I'm truly grateful for this profound analysis of "Purim After Hawara". I was upset seeing hundreds of armed and violent illegal settlers brutally rampaging Hawara and burning homes with children and elderly inside them!!! it brought to my mind the Crystal Night from 1938 when Nazis burned Jewish properties and businesses in Nazi Germany! and why so-called Halacha Jews are doing similar brutal/racist acts to the innocent Palestinians. Please keep on talking and exposing acts of ethnic cleansing so our people in America are aware that this is not acceptable by anyone in this country. Thank You, Toda Rabah, Merci and Shukran!
The Palestinians see every Israeli as a legitimate target. They are the ones who have transformed this conflict from a fight between armies into ethnic-based violence directed at ordinary people just trying to get by. If you are going to compare someone to the Kristallnacht rioters, I suggest you look at those who butcher Jews with knives while chanting "Allahu Akbar."
Or are you saying that only the people attacked in Hawara are innocent while plenty of other Palestinians are very very guilty?
As you Palestine apologists always say, what goes around comes around. Live by the sword, die by the sword. As you sow, so shall you reap. And so on.
This event, that I do not support, wasn’t unprovoked. Palestinians murdered two Israelis, including an American, this week. And then they threw a party. They also recently murdered two Israeli children. And then they threw a party. And before THAT, they murdered seven civilians outside of a synagogue. AND THEN THEY THREW A PARTY.
What, did you think Palestinians would just be able to slaughter innocent Jews and dance on their graves forever without any significant consequences? This is an ethnic conflict, and shitty things happen in ethnic conflicts. If the Palestinians don’t like settlers attacking them, they should stop attacking settlers.
Yes Peter, you do need to fight the Amalek inside. You have been one of Palestine’s most stalwart apologists for years now. Every Palestinian war crime you can be consistently called upon to justify it, including on national TV, and you enable their worst tendencies through columns like “there is no right to a state.” You sure got over that recent synagogue shooting pretty goddamn fast, didn’t you? I sure don’t remember you writing about the evil in Palestinian hearts when that happened.
Palestine is reaping a whirlwind of its own bad actions right now. If you don’t like it, maybe you should take action to attack the problem at its root rather than crying over its consequences. Palestine’s intransigence, refusal to recognize the Jewish peoples rights, and its campaign of terrorism and murder over decades is the problem here. You want to look for “extermination figures?” Look at your own camp: Nasrallah, Haniyeh, Abbas. People who have been in power for years, not three months! The settlers are only responding in kind.
"Palestine is reaping a whirlwind of its own bad actions right now. If you don’t like it, maybe you should take action to attack the problem at its root rather than crying over its consequences."
The root of the problem is occupation, ethnic cleansing, killings, injustice of the Palestinians.
The root of the problem is Palestinian Arab intolerance of the Jewish people and their rights, including the right of self-determination. Palestinian violence, murder, and terrorism towards Jews precedes the occupation, the wars, Israel's existence, the idea of a Palestinian people and even Zionism. Maybe you should read history books instead of hate sites like Mondoweiss.
But you're right about one thing, the root of the problem is the injustice of the Palestinians, their belief that they can murder as many Jews as they can get their hands on and suffer no consequences for it. A great injustice that must be resolved.
Mr Winters, hatred of Jews isn’t taught, it’s through the system of oppression that Israel imposes on Palestinians exclusively that is teaching Palestinians to hate Jews because Jews with the “Jewish only” state is the one doing the oppression. It’s not religious either. Because the Jewish state is doing it to all Palestinians whether they be Jewish, Muslim, or Catholic. Israel is causing it’s own problem by not allowing equality of all it’s citizens. That’s a democracy. Israel now has proven over and over that it certainly is not by it’s own actions. That’s not anti-semitism.
Yes it is, and so is slavery, xenophobia, and a host of other ills. So are we then going to systematically deny Palestinians basic rights now, in the “modern state of Israel?” Yes, obviously that state is determined to do so. Which requires brutality, apartheid, racism, and all the rest. Is modern South Africa now a perfect state after apartheid was abolished? No. The “side effects” of oppression usually outlive emancipation. Jim Crow laws in the US. Racism hasn’t died there either. But working towards justice is always better than working hard to keep up a systematic oppression because it’s an evil thing. The oppressor never stops oppressing others until faced with consequences. So far, Israel is fighting tooth and fascist nail NOT to face even the reality of what they are doing.
Sean, as we determined, the hatred of Jews predates the existence of Israel and even the idea of Israel. The "oppression" was caused by the hatred, when Jews took actions to stop Palestinians from murdering them without consequences, the way they could in the good old days of Mohammed and Saladin.
Second, hatred of Jews is taught, every day and in every way, in Palestine. It's a key part of the curriculum. Look up "Farfour the Mouse" some time.
Third, it's hilarious to hear a Palestine supporter complain about equality of citizenry. Palestine is a self-declared Arab Muslim state run by shar'ia law and it doesn't even pretend to be a democracy. Clean up your guys before you point fingers at others.
That’s just bull crap. The PA is secular and not even a state. But this obscures the main issue: the only way to maintain a Jewish majority state is through permanent apartheid.
The PA Is not secular. From the Constitution of Palestine, 2005:
"Article 4
1. Islam is the official religion in Palestine.
2. The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be a principal source of legislation."
Even hated Israel doesn't have an official religion or uses religion as 'a principal source of legislation'. That's all Palestine, and many other Arab states besides.
The myth of the peace process, according to Israeli historian, Benny Morris.
For those that claim that the Palestinians never wanted peace and
rejected all Israeli peace offers, Morris says: “Even if territorial compromise with the Palestinians is not realistic in this generation, as was also the case earlier, you have to play the diplomatic game - even if you know it won’t lead anywhere - in order to retain the West’s sympathy. You have to look like you’re pursuing peace, even if you’re not. “Israel always played the diplomatic game, pretending to talk peace, offering terms the Palestinians could never accept, gaining more time to continue the settlement project.
How does that out of context quote prove your point? I'm glad you're reading Morris though, keep it up, you might learn something. Just check out his Letter to the Irish Times, it's good stuff.
He meant injustice suffered by, not perpetrated by, Palestinians, which you undoubtedly understood but wanted to twist to support your tale. All injustice is wrong; the only thing worse is the refusal to admit one’s own capacity for evil, and exceptionalism by any name is the form of arrogance that supports that evil. Palestinians are in self-defense mode. Jews are in the power position, and abusing it rampantly while “enjoying” the temporary enjoyment of immunity from culpability. That – as all human history proved – is an illusion, one that always leads to destruction of the human soul, which is in the end all that matters.
Take the core issues here out of Jew vs Arab context and you will find the Supremacy Syndrome, where people throughout history find an ideology of exceptionalism – they think they are immune from moral culpability – and use it to commit great injustices and possibly genocide. Jewish supremacy is an example of this, and thus a form of Holocaust denial. Sadly!
" people throughout history find an ideology of exceptionalism – they think they are immune from moral culpability – and use it to commit great injustices and possibly genocide."
Yes, Palestinians are such a people.
What Jewish supremacy are you referring to? Equality is not supremacy, but I can see why you would feel that way, since you and yours are used to being on top.
Tit for tat, that is your mantra, Winters. What wisdom, what a profound beacon of light you are unto the world in your smug supremacist demeanor. Have you thought about how it ends? Assured, mutual destruction? Or a holocaust, by Jews this time?
Nice Jew baiting statements, Cass, no surprise to find them here on Peter Beinart's blog. How this ends is Palestinians abandon their depraved, demented desire to drive the Jews into the sea and instead accept Jews as neighbors. Many of their fellow Arab nations have already done so, it's time for Palestinians to wake up and smell the coffee.
If it seems like I have a smug supremacist demeanor, it's probably because you're just not used to interacting with people who think killing kids is always wrong. I know people like that are few and far between in pro-Palestine circles.
I just looked up the definition of “Jew baiting”. Of course, it’s the Jewish exceptionalism concept whereby anything negative or critical said about Jews is anti-semitism. How convenient. I’d rather go to jail than not speak truth to power.
LOL, I don't know where you found that definition, but that's definitely not accurate. Jew baiting is just race baiting for Jews. I assume you also think race baiting is just black people demanding exceptionalism and saying that anything negative about them is racism?
The Cambridge dictionary defines race baiting as “the act of intentionally encouraging racism or anger about issues relating to race, often to get a political advantage”. So, I will sub in Jewish for the race. Well, I’m just calling it like I see it. Peter exemplifies the Jewish person who is willing to question some of the dogma of his Jewish culture. All cultures should do this periodically. I’m pointing out that a tenet of Judaism is that Jews are a beacon to the world. If that beacon actively engages in tit for tat relations with others, how is that any different from any other tribe in the world? Jews are often very successful in their undertakings. That includes creating a Jewish nationalist state. If I were to opine on what came first, Jewish nationalist intent in Palestine (Zionism) or Arab (Palestinian) aggression, I would say Zionism. Of course there were tit for tat things going on prior, but we don’t know all the nuance in those interactions. Who took advantage of whom, etc. The point is to stop the revenge. But that will not happen because the earliest Zionists already felt themselves superior to the Palestinians and did not want the Palestinians around. Covert and overt goading, harrassment, stripping of dignity, and territorial theft are the tactics Israel used in its strategy to portray the Palestinians as deplorable terrorists. Some of the Palestinians unfortunately stepped into this role. It’s very intentional and sneaky by Israel. It makes US spokespeople start off with denouncing Palestinian terrorism everytime. That’s the image the international Western population gets.
One more point I think is important: before the notion of Zionism became a concept in Palestine, Arab and Jewish people got along relatively okay, with some acts of tit for tat. When the reality of an impending Jewish state became common knowledge, of course the Arabs there freaked out. It was the same with some of the Indigenous peoples in Canada who fought against the colonists when the numbers and intent became clear. Can any Israeli Jew honestly say they would not have been outraged if the shoe were on the other foot? But Palestinian understanding of their new reality has changed over the decades. It is no longer accurate to say that most Palestinians want the Jewish state gone. At this point most just want a fair chance at a dignified life. There are extremists, but even they would drop their arms if suddenly Israel dismantled the checkpoints, sent the IDF soldiers home, and stopped the settlement building. The original marketing of the founding of Israel was all about protecting Jews from further persecution. I don’t know if that is really still called for today. I believe that much (not all) of the anti-semitism hyped up in the news is either false flags (including incidents of weaponized neuroscience/ mind control - of which Sirhan Sirhan was an early victim) or self-inflicted by exceptionalist behaviour (such as calling all critique anti-semitic). I believe that only 25% of the incidents of anti-semitism portrayed in the MSM is real anti-semitism. It is in part hyped up to encourage Aliya and to justify a Jewish state, separate from the Palestinians, which in actual fact is, at this point in time, apartheid.
I'm having trouble following this meandering diatribe, but suffice to say, Arab murder and terrorism of Jews predates Zionism by a factor of centuries. Palestinians are the ones who don't want Jews around, and while they're busy throwing tantrums, those same Jews are befriending their Arab neighbors and signing trade deals.
A lot of what you say is very interesting and true, but I think you are insufficiently critical of Arab and Muslim culture (especially the intersection of the two). Is this because you feel it would be presumptuous for you to do so since you're not Arab or Muslim? I feel you underestimate the backwardness and irrationality and immorality of many Arabs and Muslims, especially when it comes to this issue. It's not only dehumanization of Palestinians by anti-Palestinian racism that results in some people pointing this out, it's also our observation and experience with this. As a Pakistani I have been harmed by Arabization, and I see how Arabs and Muslims routinely and regularly talk about and behave toward Jews and Israelis. I just don't see any criticism of that from you, only the allegation of dehumanization of Palestinians when people bring this up. I'm not Israeli or Jewish, I was never taught to dehumanize Palestinians: on the contrary I was taught to elevate and glorify them as angels from heaven, and degrade and dehumanize Jews and Israelis instead. Yet I still can see deep-seated cultural and ideological problems among Palestinians, and Arabs and Muslims more broadly, that have clearly contributed in a significant way to the Israel/Palestine conflict. I really value your commentary but PLEASE criticize Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims more. Thank you.
Peter's commentary is beautiful and rings true. One either believes he's/she's/etc. is exceptional and there is no potential for evil inside oneself or one does not ... and should not. Otherwise, we deceive ourselves and the trouble begins, continues.
I found Peter's essay to be quite compelling and relevant. Readers may be interested to know about Erich Neumann, a German born physician and later Israeli who wrote many important Jungian depth psychology books. Of relevance to Peter's argument is his short but profound work, Depth Psychology and a New Ethic (1949), in which he explicitly calls for this kind of interior self examination, especially around violence, which otherwise remains "justified" on the social screen of projection. Thinking about things this way may help everyone from getting caught up in the adversarial passions which are so easy to succumb to.
I have asked Professor Beinart several times for a clarification on why he addresses Israel and Palestine as Israel-Palestine. This is not a state that exists. He has thus far refused to respond.
As I have written in a previous message, I am here to hear the interviewees who support the Palestinian position. Because I am doing research on the history of Israel and Palestine. But at some point I have to ask am I supporting someone who wants to undermine the State of Israel, after all I am funding this position. I will now end this relationship. What follows here is my observation of what goes on on this site and a brief response.
First, I would like to address the constant mantra for the Jews who are the “colonial settlers” to return to Europe. Regardless of the fact that the Jews would not be welcome to come back to those European countries (we know this from the fact that at the end of WWII those who tried were threatened with pitch forks.) We even today hear from many that “Hitler should have finished the job” even here in America where we have a new epithet “Zios” (one of my kids was in fear, while in Oberlin, that she would be found out as the daughter of an Israeli-American). But the primary reason I mention all of this here is that approximately 45% of Israel’s Jewish population originates from Arab countries. These are the descendants of Jewish refugees from Arab countries—approximately 850,000 left Arab countries where they had been living and in some cases pre-dating the Arab expansion of the 7th century. And of course, like many Palestinian Arab refugees from the 1948 war they left their property behind. These Jews are not addressed by those who regularly suggest that the Jews return to Europe. Imagine the Jews returning to the Arab countries. Many of these countries do not permit Jews in their midst.
Let’s next address the “indigenous” issue. A cockamamie concept once you spend some time with any modern human genetics book. Please show me a country that the people somehow came to be without having previously been elsewhere. If this sounds like a cheap shot to you, may I ask why Palestinian Arabs are called “Arabs”. Arabs are indigenous to Arabia not elsewhere—they came from Arabia and conquered other regions of the Middle East. As for the Jews they have maintained residence in Palestine since Judean times.
Let’s be more direct about Palestine. Palestine had almost 250,000 people as the 19th century opened that population mushroomed to almost 600,000 by the end of the century. That population expansion had little to do with natural growth. It had everything to do with the contraction of the Ottoman Empire which resettled almost 3 million people from Crimea, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Chechnya, Algeria and more as their holdings contracted and the Muslims in those countries which had returned to the Christian fold requested to be moved. Those people were resettled in Syria, Trans-Jordan and Palestine in the 19th century.
In addition to this resettlement which was state supported (unlike the Jews) many local peoples from Egypt and the Levant emigrated to Palestine as conditions there improved. They were improved by the imperial powers. That’s right the imperialists: England, France, Germany and Russia all had a share in developing Palestine in the 19th century. Germany even created settlements in Palestine not for Jews but for Christians. In fact the Jews traded the remaining German templars (as they were called) during WWII for Jews that Nazi Germany held.
The Jews came back to Palestine in significant numbers starting at the end of the 19th century. They came without the support of any of the imperial powers, in fact they came despite the traditional anti-Semitism in all those countries. And they came primarily from Russia because Russia had a policy of killing Jews, called Pogroms that were state supported. The later waves came because of anti-Semitism. To suggest these were happy colonial settlers shows a certain lack of education and knowledge about Jewish history in the 19th and 20th century. My father was typical, he loved Germany (Go see They Were So Beloved) he was never comfortable in Israel, but had he not left Germany who would have been dead!
Am I inventing this? Nope but my experience on this site is that today people hold on to their ideas regardless of the facts. I shudder to think if during the Vietnam war when I was a at the U of Wisconsin and we held teach-ins on the Vietnam War, if today’s rules of engagement were observed. I recall that people were shouted down but they were shouted down as follows: “Show us your sources”. Can you just imagine a Tucker Carlson back then? I have tried to share sources here and frankly it was just LOL. But if asked I will provide them.
Finally, let’s get to Professor Beinart’s ‘why can’t we all just get along thesis and one country “from the River to the Sea”. Really? Why? Because the Palestinians committed so many strategic mistakes that we must make up for it? Were the Palestinians not offered their own country from the 1920s on? It wasn’t big enough. It wasn’t “yudenfrei” (without Jews) Sorry. Those were the reasons for rejection. Worse their leader supported Hitler while England was at war with Nazi Germany. These two people have been at each other’s throats for 100 years and Professor Beinart expects Kumbaya. His solution is basically “thanks for the memories” Israel but we don’t need you anymore. I am sorry but I can’t financially support anyone who openly advocates for the end of the State of Israel. Israel is far from perfect and is in fact in a very bad space now but that is hardly a reason to end it. If that were a reason I can think of a fair number of countries with worse sins in their history and in going forward. Let’s stop asking the Jews to do what no one else would be willing to do and that is commit national suicide.
The US owes the same deconstruction of our colonial-settler state and a restoration of Indigenous sovereignty and maximal return of stolen lands as Jewish occupiers owe Indigenous Palestinians.
Very profound and moving commentary, almost in a Talmudic tradition of sacred reflections, a call to change one's heart and one's thinking. You did it again, Peter, and we who follow you do so with renewed hope.
Peter, I have been listening to your weekly podcasts and I'm truly grateful for this profound analysis of "Purim After Hawara". I was upset seeing hundreds of armed and violent illegal settlers brutally rampaging Hawara and burning homes with children and elderly inside them!!! it brought to my mind the Crystal Night from 1938 when Nazis burned Jewish properties and businesses in Nazi Germany! and why so-called Halacha Jews are doing similar brutal/racist acts to the innocent Palestinians. Please keep on talking and exposing acts of ethnic cleansing so our people in America are aware that this is not acceptable by anyone in this country. Thank You, Toda Rabah, Merci and Shukran!
The Palestinians see every Israeli as a legitimate target. They are the ones who have transformed this conflict from a fight between armies into ethnic-based violence directed at ordinary people just trying to get by. If you are going to compare someone to the Kristallnacht rioters, I suggest you look at those who butcher Jews with knives while chanting "Allahu Akbar."
Or are you saying that only the people attacked in Hawara are innocent while plenty of other Palestinians are very very guilty?
He said why they do it there interpretation of the law is different.
Yes, it is a sad and very dangerous situation!
Powerful, Peter. Thanks for the education. God help us all in the coming days.
🙄
As you Palestine apologists always say, what goes around comes around. Live by the sword, die by the sword. As you sow, so shall you reap. And so on.
This event, that I do not support, wasn’t unprovoked. Palestinians murdered two Israelis, including an American, this week. And then they threw a party. They also recently murdered two Israeli children. And then they threw a party. And before THAT, they murdered seven civilians outside of a synagogue. AND THEN THEY THREW A PARTY.
What, did you think Palestinians would just be able to slaughter innocent Jews and dance on their graves forever without any significant consequences? This is an ethnic conflict, and shitty things happen in ethnic conflicts. If the Palestinians don’t like settlers attacking them, they should stop attacking settlers.
Yes Peter, you do need to fight the Amalek inside. You have been one of Palestine’s most stalwart apologists for years now. Every Palestinian war crime you can be consistently called upon to justify it, including on national TV, and you enable their worst tendencies through columns like “there is no right to a state.” You sure got over that recent synagogue shooting pretty goddamn fast, didn’t you? I sure don’t remember you writing about the evil in Palestinian hearts when that happened.
Palestine is reaping a whirlwind of its own bad actions right now. If you don’t like it, maybe you should take action to attack the problem at its root rather than crying over its consequences. Palestine’s intransigence, refusal to recognize the Jewish peoples rights, and its campaign of terrorism and murder over decades is the problem here. You want to look for “extermination figures?” Look at your own camp: Nasrallah, Haniyeh, Abbas. People who have been in power for years, not three months! The settlers are only responding in kind.
"Palestine is reaping a whirlwind of its own bad actions right now. If you don’t like it, maybe you should take action to attack the problem at its root rather than crying over its consequences."
The root of the problem is occupation, ethnic cleansing, killings, injustice of the Palestinians.
The root of the problem is Palestinian Arab intolerance of the Jewish people and their rights, including the right of self-determination. Palestinian violence, murder, and terrorism towards Jews precedes the occupation, the wars, Israel's existence, the idea of a Palestinian people and even Zionism. Maybe you should read history books instead of hate sites like Mondoweiss.
But you're right about one thing, the root of the problem is the injustice of the Palestinians, their belief that they can murder as many Jews as they can get their hands on and suffer no consequences for it. A great injustice that must be resolved.
Mr Winters, hatred of Jews isn’t taught, it’s through the system of oppression that Israel imposes on Palestinians exclusively that is teaching Palestinians to hate Jews because Jews with the “Jewish only” state is the one doing the oppression. It’s not religious either. Because the Jewish state is doing it to all Palestinians whether they be Jewish, Muslim, or Catholic. Israel is causing it’s own problem by not allowing equality of all it’s citizens. That’s a democracy. Israel now has proven over and over that it certainly is not by it’s own actions. That’s not anti-semitism.
No, hatred of Jews is much older than the existence of the modern state of Israel.
Yes it is, and so is slavery, xenophobia, and a host of other ills. So are we then going to systematically deny Palestinians basic rights now, in the “modern state of Israel?” Yes, obviously that state is determined to do so. Which requires brutality, apartheid, racism, and all the rest. Is modern South Africa now a perfect state after apartheid was abolished? No. The “side effects” of oppression usually outlive emancipation. Jim Crow laws in the US. Racism hasn’t died there either. But working towards justice is always better than working hard to keep up a systematic oppression because it’s an evil thing. The oppressor never stops oppressing others until faced with consequences. So far, Israel is fighting tooth and fascist nail NOT to face even the reality of what they are doing.
This is completely irrelevant to what I said but okay.
Sean, as we determined, the hatred of Jews predates the existence of Israel and even the idea of Israel. The "oppression" was caused by the hatred, when Jews took actions to stop Palestinians from murdering them without consequences, the way they could in the good old days of Mohammed and Saladin.
Second, hatred of Jews is taught, every day and in every way, in Palestine. It's a key part of the curriculum. Look up "Farfour the Mouse" some time.
Third, it's hilarious to hear a Palestine supporter complain about equality of citizenry. Palestine is a self-declared Arab Muslim state run by shar'ia law and it doesn't even pretend to be a democracy. Clean up your guys before you point fingers at others.
That’s just bull crap. The PA is secular and not even a state. But this obscures the main issue: the only way to maintain a Jewish majority state is through permanent apartheid.
The PA Is not secular. From the Constitution of Palestine, 2005:
"Article 4
1. Islam is the official religion in Palestine.
2. The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be a principal source of legislation."
Even hated Israel doesn't have an official religion or uses religion as 'a principal source of legislation'. That's all Palestine, and many other Arab states besides.
Now I’m feeding the troll.
The myth of the peace process, according to Israeli historian, Benny Morris.
For those that claim that the Palestinians never wanted peace and
rejected all Israeli peace offers, Morris says: “Even if territorial compromise with the Palestinians is not realistic in this generation, as was also the case earlier, you have to play the diplomatic game - even if you know it won’t lead anywhere - in order to retain the West’s sympathy. You have to look like you’re pursuing peace, even if you’re not. “Israel always played the diplomatic game, pretending to talk peace, offering terms the Palestinians could never accept, gaining more time to continue the settlement project.
How does that out of context quote prove your point? I'm glad you're reading Morris though, keep it up, you might learn something. Just check out his Letter to the Irish Times, it's good stuff.
He meant injustice suffered by, not perpetrated by, Palestinians, which you undoubtedly understood but wanted to twist to support your tale. All injustice is wrong; the only thing worse is the refusal to admit one’s own capacity for evil, and exceptionalism by any name is the form of arrogance that supports that evil. Palestinians are in self-defense mode. Jews are in the power position, and abusing it rampantly while “enjoying” the temporary enjoyment of immunity from culpability. That – as all human history proved – is an illusion, one that always leads to destruction of the human soul, which is in the end all that matters.
" Palestinians are in self-defense mode."
So you're denying Palestinian's capacity for evil and giving them the exception.
Take the core issues here out of Jew vs Arab context and you will find the Supremacy Syndrome, where people throughout history find an ideology of exceptionalism – they think they are immune from moral culpability – and use it to commit great injustices and possibly genocide. Jewish supremacy is an example of this, and thus a form of Holocaust denial. Sadly!
" people throughout history find an ideology of exceptionalism – they think they are immune from moral culpability – and use it to commit great injustices and possibly genocide."
Yes, Palestinians are such a people.
What Jewish supremacy are you referring to? Equality is not supremacy, but I can see why you would feel that way, since you and yours are used to being on top.
Tit for tat, that is your mantra, Winters. What wisdom, what a profound beacon of light you are unto the world in your smug supremacist demeanor. Have you thought about how it ends? Assured, mutual destruction? Or a holocaust, by Jews this time?
Nice Jew baiting statements, Cass, no surprise to find them here on Peter Beinart's blog. How this ends is Palestinians abandon their depraved, demented desire to drive the Jews into the sea and instead accept Jews as neighbors. Many of their fellow Arab nations have already done so, it's time for Palestinians to wake up and smell the coffee.
If it seems like I have a smug supremacist demeanor, it's probably because you're just not used to interacting with people who think killing kids is always wrong. I know people like that are few and far between in pro-Palestine circles.
I just looked up the definition of “Jew baiting”. Of course, it’s the Jewish exceptionalism concept whereby anything negative or critical said about Jews is anti-semitism. How convenient. I’d rather go to jail than not speak truth to power.
LOL, I don't know where you found that definition, but that's definitely not accurate. Jew baiting is just race baiting for Jews. I assume you also think race baiting is just black people demanding exceptionalism and saying that anything negative about them is racism?
The Cambridge dictionary defines race baiting as “the act of intentionally encouraging racism or anger about issues relating to race, often to get a political advantage”. So, I will sub in Jewish for the race. Well, I’m just calling it like I see it. Peter exemplifies the Jewish person who is willing to question some of the dogma of his Jewish culture. All cultures should do this periodically. I’m pointing out that a tenet of Judaism is that Jews are a beacon to the world. If that beacon actively engages in tit for tat relations with others, how is that any different from any other tribe in the world? Jews are often very successful in their undertakings. That includes creating a Jewish nationalist state. If I were to opine on what came first, Jewish nationalist intent in Palestine (Zionism) or Arab (Palestinian) aggression, I would say Zionism. Of course there were tit for tat things going on prior, but we don’t know all the nuance in those interactions. Who took advantage of whom, etc. The point is to stop the revenge. But that will not happen because the earliest Zionists already felt themselves superior to the Palestinians and did not want the Palestinians around. Covert and overt goading, harrassment, stripping of dignity, and territorial theft are the tactics Israel used in its strategy to portray the Palestinians as deplorable terrorists. Some of the Palestinians unfortunately stepped into this role. It’s very intentional and sneaky by Israel. It makes US spokespeople start off with denouncing Palestinian terrorism everytime. That’s the image the international Western population gets.
I really appreciate you engaging with the Hasbara troll. It is a hard thing to do.
One more point I think is important: before the notion of Zionism became a concept in Palestine, Arab and Jewish people got along relatively okay, with some acts of tit for tat. When the reality of an impending Jewish state became common knowledge, of course the Arabs there freaked out. It was the same with some of the Indigenous peoples in Canada who fought against the colonists when the numbers and intent became clear. Can any Israeli Jew honestly say they would not have been outraged if the shoe were on the other foot? But Palestinian understanding of their new reality has changed over the decades. It is no longer accurate to say that most Palestinians want the Jewish state gone. At this point most just want a fair chance at a dignified life. There are extremists, but even they would drop their arms if suddenly Israel dismantled the checkpoints, sent the IDF soldiers home, and stopped the settlement building. The original marketing of the founding of Israel was all about protecting Jews from further persecution. I don’t know if that is really still called for today. I believe that much (not all) of the anti-semitism hyped up in the news is either false flags (including incidents of weaponized neuroscience/ mind control - of which Sirhan Sirhan was an early victim) or self-inflicted by exceptionalist behaviour (such as calling all critique anti-semitic). I believe that only 25% of the incidents of anti-semitism portrayed in the MSM is real anti-semitism. It is in part hyped up to encourage Aliya and to justify a Jewish state, separate from the Palestinians, which in actual fact is, at this point in time, apartheid.
I'm having trouble following this meandering diatribe, but suffice to say, Arab murder and terrorism of Jews predates Zionism by a factor of centuries. Palestinians are the ones who don't want Jews around, and while they're busy throwing tantrums, those same Jews are befriending their Arab neighbors and signing trade deals.
thank you for this lovely sentiment. The comments on Ireland are especially valuable.
Ran--i saw your interesting question. barring some big news event, i'll devote next week's newsletter to my response
Looking forward to it.
A lot of what you say is very interesting and true, but I think you are insufficiently critical of Arab and Muslim culture (especially the intersection of the two). Is this because you feel it would be presumptuous for you to do so since you're not Arab or Muslim? I feel you underestimate the backwardness and irrationality and immorality of many Arabs and Muslims, especially when it comes to this issue. It's not only dehumanization of Palestinians by anti-Palestinian racism that results in some people pointing this out, it's also our observation and experience with this. As a Pakistani I have been harmed by Arabization, and I see how Arabs and Muslims routinely and regularly talk about and behave toward Jews and Israelis. I just don't see any criticism of that from you, only the allegation of dehumanization of Palestinians when people bring this up. I'm not Israeli or Jewish, I was never taught to dehumanize Palestinians: on the contrary I was taught to elevate and glorify them as angels from heaven, and degrade and dehumanize Jews and Israelis instead. Yet I still can see deep-seated cultural and ideological problems among Palestinians, and Arabs and Muslims more broadly, that have clearly contributed in a significant way to the Israel/Palestine conflict. I really value your commentary but PLEASE criticize Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims more. Thank you.
It's not been written about it and it's not online. The author send me the pdf of the letter he sent, which Carter's response.
Thanks Sam. I hope you and your family stay safe
Thank you
You're welcome.
appreciate the recomendation, thank you
sure, thank you. He clarified that he does not consider Bedouin Palestinians the equivalent of Amalek
Peter's commentary is beautiful and rings true. One either believes he's/she's/etc. is exceptional and there is no potential for evil inside oneself or one does not ... and should not. Otherwise, we deceive ourselves and the trouble begins, continues.
I found Peter's essay to be quite compelling and relevant. Readers may be interested to know about Erich Neumann, a German born physician and later Israeli who wrote many important Jungian depth psychology books. Of relevance to Peter's argument is his short but profound work, Depth Psychology and a New Ethic (1949), in which he explicitly calls for this kind of interior self examination, especially around violence, which otherwise remains "justified" on the social screen of projection. Thinking about things this way may help everyone from getting caught up in the adversarial passions which are so easy to succumb to.
I have asked Professor Beinart several times for a clarification on why he addresses Israel and Palestine as Israel-Palestine. This is not a state that exists. He has thus far refused to respond.
As I have written in a previous message, I am here to hear the interviewees who support the Palestinian position. Because I am doing research on the history of Israel and Palestine. But at some point I have to ask am I supporting someone who wants to undermine the State of Israel, after all I am funding this position. I will now end this relationship. What follows here is my observation of what goes on on this site and a brief response.
First, I would like to address the constant mantra for the Jews who are the “colonial settlers” to return to Europe. Regardless of the fact that the Jews would not be welcome to come back to those European countries (we know this from the fact that at the end of WWII those who tried were threatened with pitch forks.) We even today hear from many that “Hitler should have finished the job” even here in America where we have a new epithet “Zios” (one of my kids was in fear, while in Oberlin, that she would be found out as the daughter of an Israeli-American). But the primary reason I mention all of this here is that approximately 45% of Israel’s Jewish population originates from Arab countries. These are the descendants of Jewish refugees from Arab countries—approximately 850,000 left Arab countries where they had been living and in some cases pre-dating the Arab expansion of the 7th century. And of course, like many Palestinian Arab refugees from the 1948 war they left their property behind. These Jews are not addressed by those who regularly suggest that the Jews return to Europe. Imagine the Jews returning to the Arab countries. Many of these countries do not permit Jews in their midst.
Let’s next address the “indigenous” issue. A cockamamie concept once you spend some time with any modern human genetics book. Please show me a country that the people somehow came to be without having previously been elsewhere. If this sounds like a cheap shot to you, may I ask why Palestinian Arabs are called “Arabs”. Arabs are indigenous to Arabia not elsewhere—they came from Arabia and conquered other regions of the Middle East. As for the Jews they have maintained residence in Palestine since Judean times.
Let’s be more direct about Palestine. Palestine had almost 250,000 people as the 19th century opened that population mushroomed to almost 600,000 by the end of the century. That population expansion had little to do with natural growth. It had everything to do with the contraction of the Ottoman Empire which resettled almost 3 million people from Crimea, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Chechnya, Algeria and more as their holdings contracted and the Muslims in those countries which had returned to the Christian fold requested to be moved. Those people were resettled in Syria, Trans-Jordan and Palestine in the 19th century.
In addition to this resettlement which was state supported (unlike the Jews) many local peoples from Egypt and the Levant emigrated to Palestine as conditions there improved. They were improved by the imperial powers. That’s right the imperialists: England, France, Germany and Russia all had a share in developing Palestine in the 19th century. Germany even created settlements in Palestine not for Jews but for Christians. In fact the Jews traded the remaining German templars (as they were called) during WWII for Jews that Nazi Germany held.
The Jews came back to Palestine in significant numbers starting at the end of the 19th century. They came without the support of any of the imperial powers, in fact they came despite the traditional anti-Semitism in all those countries. And they came primarily from Russia because Russia had a policy of killing Jews, called Pogroms that were state supported. The later waves came because of anti-Semitism. To suggest these were happy colonial settlers shows a certain lack of education and knowledge about Jewish history in the 19th and 20th century. My father was typical, he loved Germany (Go see They Were So Beloved) he was never comfortable in Israel, but had he not left Germany who would have been dead!
Am I inventing this? Nope but my experience on this site is that today people hold on to their ideas regardless of the facts. I shudder to think if during the Vietnam war when I was a at the U of Wisconsin and we held teach-ins on the Vietnam War, if today’s rules of engagement were observed. I recall that people were shouted down but they were shouted down as follows: “Show us your sources”. Can you just imagine a Tucker Carlson back then? I have tried to share sources here and frankly it was just LOL. But if asked I will provide them.
Finally, let’s get to Professor Beinart’s ‘why can’t we all just get along thesis and one country “from the River to the Sea”. Really? Why? Because the Palestinians committed so many strategic mistakes that we must make up for it? Were the Palestinians not offered their own country from the 1920s on? It wasn’t big enough. It wasn’t “yudenfrei” (without Jews) Sorry. Those were the reasons for rejection. Worse their leader supported Hitler while England was at war with Nazi Germany. These two people have been at each other’s throats for 100 years and Professor Beinart expects Kumbaya. His solution is basically “thanks for the memories” Israel but we don’t need you anymore. I am sorry but I can’t financially support anyone who openly advocates for the end of the State of Israel. Israel is far from perfect and is in fact in a very bad space now but that is hardly a reason to end it. If that were a reason I can think of a fair number of countries with worse sins in their history and in going forward. Let’s stop asking the Jews to do what no one else would be willing to do and that is commit national suicide.
The US owes the same deconstruction of our colonial-settler state and a restoration of Indigenous sovereignty and maximal return of stolen lands as Jewish occupiers owe Indigenous Palestinians.
Very profound and moving commentary, almost in a Talmudic tradition of sacred reflections, a call to change one's heart and one's thinking. You did it again, Peter, and we who follow you do so with renewed hope.
Hi there, Shalom. Am from Hong Kong. Just wondering, if it's possible for me to translate your insight on Purim into Chinese?
And what's Dovid Katz clarified (sorry I do not have access to Apple Podcast)?
Cheers.
Hi?