This video is not transcribed. Here’s the Jewish Currents essay on which it is based: https://jewishcurrents.org/israels-ascendant-far-right-cant-be-understood-by-analogy Friday Call: Our guests for this Friday’s Zoom call, to talk about the ideological character of the next Israeli government, will be
That's a startling piece, when I consider that fundamental difference between even the right-wing Tory government here in the UK and virtually the entire Israeli political class. Not even the most rabidly xenophobic Tory for decades has even hinted at 'preserving the white majority' or 'expelling Muslims/Blacks/whoever I happen to hate the most'. They know that the political conversation has moved far away from that. It is, of course, still evident in the discourse around immigration.
Yet supporters of the unashamedly apartheid regime in Israel, and they are undoubtedly about to comment on this thread, will aggressively try to have their cake and eat it. They claim that Israel is free, democratic and marvellous to everyone who lives there... and also a proudly Jewish nation being assailed by evil Arabs. It's not possible to be 'democratic' and yet 'privileging one group at all costs'. The twisted, convoluted arguments the Zionists use will shortly appear below this comment.
Peter criticizes the Israeli right wing, but refuses to condemn anyone on the Palestinian right. Why does he think he has any credibility to point fingers at anyone?
I've been on a few zoom calls but I usually teach then so I miss them - so I listen later.
Thank you for your insights, the problem is that people hearing or reading these analyses- it's speaking to the choir in a way. In spite of the recent elections, the majority of conservative congregations can't see beyond the original perception that Israel is under existential threats - how on earth do we deal with that. A friend, who considers himself informed and progressive told me tht Israel has no partners for peace, no one to negotiate with. Blind. Any suggestions as to how on earth to deal with that?
Thank you for the link to the U. of Pacific. I found the experience informative about the law surrounding boycotts as well as campus policies. More about that another time.
But let me turn to your recent Jewish Currents piece about “Israel’s Ascendant Right”. I will focus on the end and the beginning, in that order.
First, my question to you is what does it mean when you write: “After the election, Haaretz called Ben-Gvir ‘a Trump-like figure.’ That’s understandable. But in the kind of country Ben-Gvir’s rivals want, they are Trump-like figures too. “ Are you saying Yair Lapid of Yesh Atid Merav Michaeli of Meretz and Benny Ganz as well as their party members are also Trumpies? Really?
What makes Israel radical is not as you write: “As a Jewish state, it radically privileges Jewish immigration. Jews can move to Israel and gain citizenship immediately. For non-Jews, by contrast, moving to Israel and gaining citizenship is extremely difficult.” You would do well to check citizenship requirements in just about every country surrounding Israel and in Europe. They are all based on birth, descent or marriage, some identify very strongly with religion (Arabs Islam, Greece with the Eastern Church). All other methods are by gaining admission to the country not an easy step for most people. And once there you need to maintain a 10-year working record in the country. Oh, yes, you can buy your way in to Switzerland.
As you can see they are just as “radical”. While we are at it, let me remind you the US has long had a quota system for immigration. That system is based on favoritism of certain ethnic groups over others. And you know my position on many of the issues brought up here is that we keep throwing stones while living in a glass house.
What is radical about Israel that it actively seeks immigrants from a particular group—Jews—it is the act of seeking Jewish immigrants that differentiates Israel from other countries or makes it radical in your eyes. Professor Beinart that is based on the history of denial for Jewish entry to most countries even when their lives are at stake. Look around those problems keep coming up even today. Jews certainly do need a place where they are first in line at the gate.
Finally, Professor Beinart I have long learned that calling anything radical is a sign of a weak label or weak argument. I hear the term daily when it comes to even white toast like Biden. Please drop it.
As for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich and their ilk I too am very radically disappointed, but I think a good place to read about their future is in Haaretz by anshel Pfeffer Bibi’s Choice: He May Prefer a Radical Coalition This Time – Until He Drops Ben-Gvir - Israel Election 2022 - Haaretz.com As you write Israel is a very different place. Let’s see what happens first.
I note that many (Beinart, Leifer and even Friedman) are feeding on the carcass of the dead cow that is Israel’s democracy without waiting for the cow to be kosher slaughtered. Keep in mind the right wing actually got less than 50% of the vote!
Now everyone is so sure that Netanyahu will choose Gvir and Smotrich as his new partners. I am not so sure. Netanyahu wants to be in power for a long time. But as far as I can tell his only idée fixe is to attack Iran. And he would also like to annex the West Bank but understands that now is not the time, if ever. As an experienced leader he knows the value of talking from both sides of his mouth.
Netanyahu is not religious, he dons a kippa (yarmulka) only when necessary and is no fan of the religious right, emphasis on religious. Given the already unpopular statements by Smotrich (to ban soccer on Shabbat) not to mention the demands to be Israel’s police chief and no doubt similar demands from Gvir it would strike me that he might prefer Benny Ganz and even Lapid as coalition partners. Having an all-right wing block rule Israel is not Netanyahu’s first choice, in my opinion. Having a so-called unity government is much more likely to lead to a long term government and keep him in power longer.
In the interim I recommend staying away from that cow its treif.
Thanks Sam
That's a startling piece, when I consider that fundamental difference between even the right-wing Tory government here in the UK and virtually the entire Israeli political class. Not even the most rabidly xenophobic Tory for decades has even hinted at 'preserving the white majority' or 'expelling Muslims/Blacks/whoever I happen to hate the most'. They know that the political conversation has moved far away from that. It is, of course, still evident in the discourse around immigration.
Yet supporters of the unashamedly apartheid regime in Israel, and they are undoubtedly about to comment on this thread, will aggressively try to have their cake and eat it. They claim that Israel is free, democratic and marvellous to everyone who lives there... and also a proudly Jewish nation being assailed by evil Arabs. It's not possible to be 'democratic' and yet 'privileging one group at all costs'. The twisted, convoluted arguments the Zionists use will shortly appear below this comment.
Peter criticizes the Israeli right wing, but refuses to condemn anyone on the Palestinian right. Why does he think he has any credibility to point fingers at anyone?
Hi Peter-
I've been on a few zoom calls but I usually teach then so I miss them - so I listen later.
Thank you for your insights, the problem is that people hearing or reading these analyses- it's speaking to the choir in a way. In spite of the recent elections, the majority of conservative congregations can't see beyond the original perception that Israel is under existential threats - how on earth do we deal with that. A friend, who considers himself informed and progressive told me tht Israel has no partners for peace, no one to negotiate with. Blind. Any suggestions as to how on earth to deal with that?
the far-right in Europe wants to abolish liberal, open and democratic institutions and socities
Thank you for the link to the U. of Pacific. I found the experience informative about the law surrounding boycotts as well as campus policies. More about that another time.
But let me turn to your recent Jewish Currents piece about “Israel’s Ascendant Right”. I will focus on the end and the beginning, in that order.
First, my question to you is what does it mean when you write: “After the election, Haaretz called Ben-Gvir ‘a Trump-like figure.’ That’s understandable. But in the kind of country Ben-Gvir’s rivals want, they are Trump-like figures too. “ Are you saying Yair Lapid of Yesh Atid Merav Michaeli of Meretz and Benny Ganz as well as their party members are also Trumpies? Really?
What makes Israel radical is not as you write: “As a Jewish state, it radically privileges Jewish immigration. Jews can move to Israel and gain citizenship immediately. For non-Jews, by contrast, moving to Israel and gaining citizenship is extremely difficult.” You would do well to check citizenship requirements in just about every country surrounding Israel and in Europe. They are all based on birth, descent or marriage, some identify very strongly with religion (Arabs Islam, Greece with the Eastern Church). All other methods are by gaining admission to the country not an easy step for most people. And once there you need to maintain a 10-year working record in the country. Oh, yes, you can buy your way in to Switzerland.
As you can see they are just as “radical”. While we are at it, let me remind you the US has long had a quota system for immigration. That system is based on favoritism of certain ethnic groups over others. And you know my position on many of the issues brought up here is that we keep throwing stones while living in a glass house.
What is radical about Israel that it actively seeks immigrants from a particular group—Jews—it is the act of seeking Jewish immigrants that differentiates Israel from other countries or makes it radical in your eyes. Professor Beinart that is based on the history of denial for Jewish entry to most countries even when their lives are at stake. Look around those problems keep coming up even today. Jews certainly do need a place where they are first in line at the gate.
Finally, Professor Beinart I have long learned that calling anything radical is a sign of a weak label or weak argument. I hear the term daily when it comes to even white toast like Biden. Please drop it.
As for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich and their ilk I too am very radically disappointed, but I think a good place to read about their future is in Haaretz by anshel Pfeffer Bibi’s Choice: He May Prefer a Radical Coalition This Time – Until He Drops Ben-Gvir - Israel Election 2022 - Haaretz.com As you write Israel is a very different place. Let’s see what happens first.
Spot on, your words and article! Kudos 👏
I note that many (Beinart, Leifer and even Friedman) are feeding on the carcass of the dead cow that is Israel’s democracy without waiting for the cow to be kosher slaughtered. Keep in mind the right wing actually got less than 50% of the vote!
Now everyone is so sure that Netanyahu will choose Gvir and Smotrich as his new partners. I am not so sure. Netanyahu wants to be in power for a long time. But as far as I can tell his only idée fixe is to attack Iran. And he would also like to annex the West Bank but understands that now is not the time, if ever. As an experienced leader he knows the value of talking from both sides of his mouth.
Netanyahu is not religious, he dons a kippa (yarmulka) only when necessary and is no fan of the religious right, emphasis on religious. Given the already unpopular statements by Smotrich (to ban soccer on Shabbat) not to mention the demands to be Israel’s police chief and no doubt similar demands from Gvir it would strike me that he might prefer Benny Ganz and even Lapid as coalition partners. Having an all-right wing block rule Israel is not Netanyahu’s first choice, in my opinion. Having a so-called unity government is much more likely to lead to a long term government and keep him in power longer.
In the interim I recommend staying away from that cow its treif.
Basically, there is a difference between democracy and ethnocracy https://www.liberalcurrents.com/why-israeli-democracy-is-unstable-and-corrupt/