To hear this from a Palestine apologist such as Beinart is bitterly ironic. Both Palestinian nationalism and white nationalism are threats to Jews. Palestinian nationalists have slaughtered Jews in their homes, synagogues, restaurants, and anywhere Jews can be found. Palestinian nationalist activists in the West can’t seem to get enough of harassing Jews and even engaging in violence against them.
If Peter here is truly opposed to violence against Jews, then I would like him to give a full throated condemnation of not only Palestinian nationalist terrorism but Palestinian nationalist activism, including such groups as “Jewish” Voice for “Peace,” Students for Just Us in Palestine, and their allies. And no, the usual “All Lives Matter” bullshit isn’t going to fly this time. 19 Jews have been killed in the past two weeks by Palestinian nationalism and many more Palestinians have died as a result of it.
Everyone with a brain agrees that white nationalism is a threat to Jews. That’s been true longer than Beinart has been alive. But it appears not everyone agrees that Palestinian nationalism is a threat to Jews. Beinart must use his platform to communicate that message, again, if he truly cares about Jews.
For those of us who follow Peter in his tireless work to promote understanding of conflicts, how they arise and the work being done to address and resolve them, can help us learn to see the world from another person's perspective.
"The right of Palestinians to resist their occupation is enshrined in international and customary law, a fact that is denied and violated by Israel and wilfully overlooked by the rest of the world."
Doesn't Israel consistently ignore international law, doesn't Israel consistently brutalize the Palestinians. doesn't Israel assassinate journalists, medics etc. Put yourself in a Palestinians shoes and I know that you wouldn't put up with it.
This is just a talking point salad. Which facts are you denying here: that Palestinian nationalism predates the occupation, or that Palestinian nationalism poses a threat to Jews? If you’re not denying these facts then we have nothing more to discuss.
Not at all. I’m commenting on an article about a nationalism that poses a threat to Jews, written by a prominent apologist for Palestine. I’m perfectly on topic. Now contribute something useful or fuck off.
Palestinian nationalism is a threat to Jews in Palestine, White nationalism and nazism are a threat to Jews everywhere. Moreover the police state tactics used by the Israeli government to suppress Palestinian nationalism will come back to bite them as they lose support from a west that has a long history of failing them. There are some of us out here who watched Netanyahu and the parties of the right in Israel sucking up to Donald Trump and Putin while they are openly allying wth actual nazis all while smearing anyone who dares criticize their apartheid project as antisemites. We have feared all along that one day they would see the rise of real antisemites who really do threaten Jews everywhere. Palestinians are also a semitic people and the cruel suppression of their legitimate grievances is also antisemitism and will end badly while playing into the hands of actual irredeemable nazis everywhere. Palestinian nationalism, like nationalism everywhere (including Israel where it is called zionism) has a germ of hate at its core that will not be tamed by high minded rhetoric and the language of ethnic or racial "rights". Israel is a small nation surrounded by a world that has more than once failed to prevent the mass murder of Jews. In a sense it is like Gaza, another forgotten hot war against a semitic people. Talk about "bitterly ironic".
Palestinian nationalism certainly poses a threat to Jews everywhere, per the actions of its proponents. There was a time when Palestinian terrorists and their allies in Hezbollah would to routinely attack Jewish targets worldwide such as in countries like Argentina and on college campuses today Palestinian nationalists intimidate and threaten Jewish students and even engage in violence against them. Earlier this year we saw Palestinian nationalists marching through London chanting "Kill the Jews and rape their mothers," although you wouldn't have heard about that on this Substack.
We seem to be in agreement that Palestinian nationalism is a bad thing and a threat to Jews, though. I wish Beinart could bring himself to say even that.
The continued occupation, indeed the accelerating occupation of land in the west bank and the continued blockade of Gaza pose a risk of conflict that is impossible to avoid and cannot be blamed on nationalism Palestinian or otherwise. I would think that a proponent of peace as I am sure you are would at least be able to see based on the experience of having to fight for recognition as a nation that nothing so nurtures nationalism as attempts to suppress it. Whether nationalism or zionism have been good things for humanity I would think an objective observer would be dubious.
Like the other fellow’s comment, this is just a series of talking points that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. If you disagree with me that Palestinian nationalism poses a threat to Jews, let me know. Otherwise it sounds like we agree it belongs in the same bin as white nationalism and Peter should say as much in a future column.
I feel like the original commenter is saying that it's important to recognize the context of Palestinian nationalism in regards to what motivates it. In all honesty, what you seem to be saying is that "they're poking me, what nasty people!", ignoring the fact that they might have been poked first.
Have you considered that a white nationalist would say the exact same thing? That it's important to recognize the context of white nationalism in regards what motivates it? Do you think Peter would be willing to do so? I think not.
I take issue with Prof. Beinart's: “Isaac Chotiner made an admirable attempt to unravel [Greenblatt’s] incoherent claims”. I too read the New Yorker piece and I came away thinking that Greenblatt was on target. At the end of the day Isaac Chotinger is left with the following: Zionism is the political belief behind the creation of the national home for Jews, being anti-Zionist means to be against the creation of national home for the Jews. How is this not anti-Semitism?
This is an illuminating article, thanks for it. It addresses white supremacist antisemitism, which I have not been exposed to much growing up (I'm from a Muslim-majority country), and helped me to understand the nature of white supremacist antisemitism.
The article does not address Muslim antisemitism, however, which isn't associated with anti-black racism, Islamophobia, or anti-immigrant sentiment. Muslim antisemitism is also an interesting phenomenon that should be examined. If you could do an article or something on the topic, that would be nice. I think non-Muslim Western progressives tend to ignore Muslim antisemitism because they think it doesn't matter, but it matters a lot when it comes to the Israel/Palestine issue (and is very deeply connected to and almost inseparable from Muslim anti-Zionism and anti-Israel sentiment), and Muslims make up the most numerous group of antisemitic people in contemporary times.
Caution in the face of the unknown is healthy, but when caution becomes a phobia it is like an autoimmune disorder. It is always dangerous, especially since fear is contagious. Islamophobia, antisemitism, melanophobia are such disorders. They are rarely confined to one group. This is why the post-p/11 Islamophobia quickly affected other "alien" groups. G.W. Bush tried to stop this, but Rupert Murdock seized the day.
Yes, be safe and take care Peter. Though, as a white, Ashkenazi (the preferred, "Superior" kind of your upcoming guest - the utterly despicable Brett Stevens) Jew, your chances of being a victim of a hate crime are less than random compared to the Black and Brown bodies that bear the brunt of racist hate in the Western world. Curiously, all you had to say about the murder/assassination of Shireen Abu Akleh - among your "Other Stuff" - was: "the slain Palestinian-American journalist... " Anodyne and utterly devoid of empathy, sympathy or analysis.
Well said. Please take extra safety precautions for yourself and your family. It must be more than a little unnerving to see your photo in a hate filled, racist screed published on the internet.
To hear this from a Palestine apologist such as Beinart is bitterly ironic. Both Palestinian nationalism and white nationalism are threats to Jews. Palestinian nationalists have slaughtered Jews in their homes, synagogues, restaurants, and anywhere Jews can be found. Palestinian nationalist activists in the West can’t seem to get enough of harassing Jews and even engaging in violence against them.
If Peter here is truly opposed to violence against Jews, then I would like him to give a full throated condemnation of not only Palestinian nationalist terrorism but Palestinian nationalist activism, including such groups as “Jewish” Voice for “Peace,” Students for Just Us in Palestine, and their allies. And no, the usual “All Lives Matter” bullshit isn’t going to fly this time. 19 Jews have been killed in the past two weeks by Palestinian nationalism and many more Palestinians have died as a result of it.
Everyone with a brain agrees that white nationalism is a threat to Jews. That’s been true longer than Beinart has been alive. But it appears not everyone agrees that Palestinian nationalism is a threat to Jews. Beinart must use his platform to communicate that message, again, if he truly cares about Jews.
For those of us who follow Peter in his tireless work to promote understanding of conflicts, how they arise and the work being done to address and resolve them, can help us learn to see the world from another person's perspective.
Maybe Palestinian nationalism might just have something to do with the decades of Israel's brutal military occupation.
Maybe, but Palestinian nationalism predates Israel's military occupation by a factor of decades, the PLO was founded in 1964, so it's not likely.
Regardless of why Palestinian nationalism exists, there's no doubt it is a threat to Jews, we don't seem to disagree about that.
"The right of Palestinians to resist their occupation is enshrined in international and customary law, a fact that is denied and violated by Israel and wilfully overlooked by the rest of the world."
Poorna Mishra
16 March 2015
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/Doesn't -palestine-denial-and-suppression/
Doesn't Israel consistently ignore international law, doesn't Israel consistently brutalize the Palestinians. doesn't Israel assassinate journalists, medics etc. Put yourself in a Palestinians shoes and I know that you wouldn't put up with it.
This is just a talking point salad. Which facts are you denying here: that Palestinian nationalism predates the occupation, or that Palestinian nationalism poses a threat to Jews? If you’re not denying these facts then we have nothing more to discuss.
You have Palestinian nationalism on the brain. Perhaps that's why you are anonymous.
Not at all. I’m commenting on an article about a nationalism that poses a threat to Jews, written by a prominent apologist for Palestine. I’m perfectly on topic. Now contribute something useful or fuck off.
I thought Palestinian nationalism goes back centuries, since the Palestinians have been there since time immemorial and Jesus was a Palestinian.
Palestinian nationalism is a threat to Jews in Palestine, White nationalism and nazism are a threat to Jews everywhere. Moreover the police state tactics used by the Israeli government to suppress Palestinian nationalism will come back to bite them as they lose support from a west that has a long history of failing them. There are some of us out here who watched Netanyahu and the parties of the right in Israel sucking up to Donald Trump and Putin while they are openly allying wth actual nazis all while smearing anyone who dares criticize their apartheid project as antisemites. We have feared all along that one day they would see the rise of real antisemites who really do threaten Jews everywhere. Palestinians are also a semitic people and the cruel suppression of their legitimate grievances is also antisemitism and will end badly while playing into the hands of actual irredeemable nazis everywhere. Palestinian nationalism, like nationalism everywhere (including Israel where it is called zionism) has a germ of hate at its core that will not be tamed by high minded rhetoric and the language of ethnic or racial "rights". Israel is a small nation surrounded by a world that has more than once failed to prevent the mass murder of Jews. In a sense it is like Gaza, another forgotten hot war against a semitic people. Talk about "bitterly ironic".
Palestinian nationalism certainly poses a threat to Jews everywhere, per the actions of its proponents. There was a time when Palestinian terrorists and their allies in Hezbollah would to routinely attack Jewish targets worldwide such as in countries like Argentina and on college campuses today Palestinian nationalists intimidate and threaten Jewish students and even engage in violence against them. Earlier this year we saw Palestinian nationalists marching through London chanting "Kill the Jews and rape their mothers," although you wouldn't have heard about that on this Substack.
We seem to be in agreement that Palestinian nationalism is a bad thing and a threat to Jews, though. I wish Beinart could bring himself to say even that.
The continued occupation, indeed the accelerating occupation of land in the west bank and the continued blockade of Gaza pose a risk of conflict that is impossible to avoid and cannot be blamed on nationalism Palestinian or otherwise. I would think that a proponent of peace as I am sure you are would at least be able to see based on the experience of having to fight for recognition as a nation that nothing so nurtures nationalism as attempts to suppress it. Whether nationalism or zionism have been good things for humanity I would think an objective observer would be dubious.
Like the other fellow’s comment, this is just a series of talking points that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. If you disagree with me that Palestinian nationalism poses a threat to Jews, let me know. Otherwise it sounds like we agree it belongs in the same bin as white nationalism and Peter should say as much in a future column.
I feel like the original commenter is saying that it's important to recognize the context of Palestinian nationalism in regards to what motivates it. In all honesty, what you seem to be saying is that "they're poking me, what nasty people!", ignoring the fact that they might have been poked first.
Have you considered that a white nationalist would say the exact same thing? That it's important to recognize the context of white nationalism in regards what motivates it? Do you think Peter would be willing to do so? I think not.
I take issue with Prof. Beinart's: “Isaac Chotiner made an admirable attempt to unravel [Greenblatt’s] incoherent claims”. I too read the New Yorker piece and I came away thinking that Greenblatt was on target. At the end of the day Isaac Chotinger is left with the following: Zionism is the political belief behind the creation of the national home for Jews, being anti-Zionist means to be against the creation of national home for the Jews. How is this not anti-Semitism?
I think it became pretty clear after the Tree of Life shooting that white nationalism a) contained anti-Semitism and b) was a threat to Jews.
This is an illuminating article, thanks for it. It addresses white supremacist antisemitism, which I have not been exposed to much growing up (I'm from a Muslim-majority country), and helped me to understand the nature of white supremacist antisemitism.
The article does not address Muslim antisemitism, however, which isn't associated with anti-black racism, Islamophobia, or anti-immigrant sentiment. Muslim antisemitism is also an interesting phenomenon that should be examined. If you could do an article or something on the topic, that would be nice. I think non-Muslim Western progressives tend to ignore Muslim antisemitism because they think it doesn't matter, but it matters a lot when it comes to the Israel/Palestine issue (and is very deeply connected to and almost inseparable from Muslim anti-Zionism and anti-Israel sentiment), and Muslims make up the most numerous group of antisemitic people in contemporary times.
If you haven't seen Eric Ward's writing on this (the relationship between anti-Semitism and white nationalism), in my view it's best in class: https://politicalresearch.org/2017/06/29/skin-in-the-game-how-antisemitism-animates-white-nationalism
i have and i agree, thanks
Peter, thanks for the Ilse Stanley links. She was a brave talented lady. Looking forward to seeing Jason on Friday.
Caution in the face of the unknown is healthy, but when caution becomes a phobia it is like an autoimmune disorder. It is always dangerous, especially since fear is contagious. Islamophobia, antisemitism, melanophobia are such disorders. They are rarely confined to one group. This is why the post-p/11 Islamophobia quickly affected other "alien" groups. G.W. Bush tried to stop this, but Rupert Murdock seized the day.
Yes, be safe and take care Peter. Though, as a white, Ashkenazi (the preferred, "Superior" kind of your upcoming guest - the utterly despicable Brett Stevens) Jew, your chances of being a victim of a hate crime are less than random compared to the Black and Brown bodies that bear the brunt of racist hate in the Western world. Curiously, all you had to say about the murder/assassination of Shireen Abu Akleh - among your "Other Stuff" - was: "the slain Palestinian-American journalist... " Anodyne and utterly devoid of empathy, sympathy or analysis.
I think if you check my twitter feed you'll see that I said a great deal about her killing.
Great piece, like really great, but I’m surprised to see it published while the Celtics are playing a Game 7!
I need to rethink my priorities
Thank you for this powerful piece. I'm sick to my stomach. And yes, be safe.
Well said. Please take extra safety precautions for yourself and your family. It must be more than a little unnerving to see your photo in a hate filled, racist screed published on the internet.