I made no comment about Mr Trump. I agreed with Ms Omar that AIPAC's work in the USA is mainly about obtaining funds. It is also about ensuring a steady and huge flow of weapons to apartheid Israel so that it can slaughter Palestinian men, women and children and keep Israel solely for white, Jewish people (see https://www.liberationnews.…
I made no comment about Mr Trump. I agreed with Ms Omar that AIPAC's work in the USA is mainly about obtaining funds. It is also about ensuring a steady and huge flow of weapons to apartheid Israel so that it can slaughter Palestinian men, women and children and keep Israel solely for white, Jewish people (see https://www.liberationnews.org/israels-long-history-of-anti-black-racism/)
As for your other question:
"So what does Zionism mean today, and how many American Jews reject Zionism? It isn’t an easy question to answer, since Zionism itself is such contested territory. But if we accept the current definition advanced by the state of Israel itself, that Zionism demands a state in which Jews hold a voting majority, then fully twenty percent of American Jews are not Zionists.
We know this because we know that one in five American Jews think it is more important for Israel to be a democracy than for it to remain a Jewish state, thanks to an AJC poll of American Jews are not Zionists). When asked if Israel can be both a Jewish state and a democracy, and if not, which should it be, fully 20% of American Jews answered “No, it should be a democracy.”"
I know. That's why I'm asking you if you agree with his view that Israel controls the US government. The fact that you keep dodging the question is illuminating. Peter, I think we got another one over here!
Apartheid Israel's government - composed of Zionists, allied to extremist Islamic states and friendly with the anti-Semitic far Right around the world - has a great deal of influence in the US government via AIPAC. How else do you explain the continuing vast amounts of money and weapons that the USA funnels to keep Israel from having to become a free democracy?
You might explain how what I wrote is anti-Semitic rather than anti-Zionist and anti-racist. You entirely failed to engage with my arguments or provide any counter-evidence. As for anti-Semitism, you might explain why Zionists and the apartheid government of Israel are so friendly with the anti-Semitic far Right.
"Fascistic President of Brazil Jair Bolsonaro visited the state of Israel over March and April this year, where he was warmly welcomed.
His tour is just the latest in a series of visits building connections and links between far-right anti-Semitic political figures and the Israeli government. In December last year, the Italian Interior Minister and leader of the racist anti-immigrant Lega Party, Matteo Salvini, visited Israel where he declared his unconditional support for the regime in Tel Aviv.
It is no exaggeration to say that Israel has actively courted the friendship and connections of ultra-right and anti-immigrant parties and ideologues from around the world. In turn, the latter have expressed their ideological support for the ethnocratic Zionist project, while holding explicitly anti-Semitic viewpoints.
Why is there an open and burgeoning alliance between the far-right fascistic parties and the Zionist state of Israel?"
You can read the Beinart article above for a far better and more comprehensive explanation about why your and Trump's views are anti-Semitic. You did read this article before commenting, correct? Here's a section for you:
"In the interview with Ravid, Trump declared “it used to be that Israel had absolute power over Congress.” Absolute power—how’s that for a statement about Jewish control? In criticizing The New York Times’ coverage of Israel, he also referenced the “Jewish people who run The New York Times, the Sulzberger family”—thus implying that the Sulzbergers’ Jewishness should dictate the newspaper’s coverage of the Jewish state. Trump has said these kinds of things before. He’s made it clear that he views American Jews as power-hungry, conspiracy-minded and money-obsessed. "
By expressing the same views as Trump and failing to even bother to pretend you disagree with him, by Beinart's standards you're expressing anti-Semitic views. Might as well just admit it and save everyone some time.
You are attributing to me views which I have never expressed. Mr Trump, the former US President who moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, might well be anti-Semitic but my views are not his. Neither the apartheid Israeli government nor AIPAC has absolute control over the US Congress. However, as must be obvious to anyone, they do have substantial influence. That does not mean "Jews have great power and too much influence". It means anti-Palestinian Zionists do. There is a considerable difference, yet you, all Zionists and the apartheid Israeli state use the untrue conflation of the two to lob accusations of anti-Semitism at the Left - but never at the far Right where it belongs.
My previous comment was about the considerable and growing links between your Zionist friends, the apartheid Israeli government and the real anti-Semites of the far Right around the world. You failed to answer my request that you explain these links.
You have also never condemned Trump's views despite multiple requests to do so while pushing essentially the same argument. "Control" vs. "substantial influence" is semantic hairsplitting. As for your claim that your views are about Zionists, not Jews, well, Trump didn't say Jews either, he said "Israel had absolute power over Congress" and yet Beinart and the rest of us were able to see through the euphemism to the anti-Semitic trope that it is. Your "not Jews but Zionists" language is not different in the slightest. MLK: "When people say Zionists they mean Jews". Beinart is not a Zionist but he can still recognize this. Why can't you? Maybe because you don't want to.
I've no interest in Trump's views. He was not my President; I'm British. You are seemingly deliberately conflating opposition to Zionist propaganda and political action with anti-Semitism. This is an old and discreditable tactic of smears but you know how well it works: it succeeded in ensuring that the pro-Palestinian Jeremy Corbyn could not be Prime Minister.
Supposedly quoting Martin Luther King, Jr. does not aid your case. "Some have attempted to paint King as an unswerving supporter of Israel. Their most substantial evidence is a letter that King supposedly wrote to an “anti-Zionist friend.”
"You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist’. . . . And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God’s green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews. . . . Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."
This passage supposedly originated from a “Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend” in an August 1967 edition of Saturday Review. But researchers have found no letters from Dr King in any of the four August 1967 editions. Some have claimed that the letter was also published in a book by Dr King entitled, This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. But according to Electronic Intifada, “no such book was listed in the bibliography provided by the King Center in Atlanta, nor in the catalogs of several large public and university libraries.” A recent search of all electronic databases confirms this."
You still refuse to explain the strong links between your friends the Zionists, the apartheid Israeli government and far-Right movements and governments.
"... despite his allegedly anti-Semitic leanings, [Steve] Bannon has been widely embraced by prominent Zionists in American and Israeli politics. Bernie Marcus, a board member of the Republican Jewish Coalition, issued a statement saying, “I have known Steve to be a passionate Zionist and supporter of Israel who felt so strongly about this that he opened a Breitbart office in Israel to ensure that the true pro-Israel story would get out.”
Even Israel’s ambassador to the United States, Ron Dermer, echoed this sentiment, saying:
“Israel has no doubt that President-Elect Trump is a true friend of Israel. […] We look forward to working with the Trump administration, with all of the members of the Trump administration, including Steve Bannon, and making the US-Israel alliance stronger than ever.”
... Bannon’s ties to white nationalism hold the key to interpreting this conundrum. White nationalism and Zionism are both based on the formation of “ethno-states,” nations that serve the interests and culture of one particular ethnic group. Thus, recognizing the legitimacy of a Zionist state and its geopolitical goals serves to legitimize the white nationalism that often expresses anti-Semitic sentiments.
Todd Gitlin, a professor of journalism and sociology at Columbia University and cultural commentator, elaborated on this point when he told the Forward in November that this seemingly contradictory mix of anti-Semitism and Zionism are actually perfectly compatible thanks to their underlying nationalism. He explained:
“Anti-Semitism and right-wing Zionism are varieties of ultra nationalism, or, to put it more pejoratively (as it deserves to be put) tribalism. They both presume that the embattled righteous ones need to bristle at, wall off, and punish the damned outsiders. They hate and fear cosmopolitan mixtures. They make a fetish of purity. They have the same soul. They rhyme.”"
You have no interest in Trump's views? This is literally an article based on something Donald Trump said. You came here to this article and starting posting views that are essentially the same thing and now you're trying to pretend you're "not interested"? You're not fooling anyone and this is truly pathetic to watch.
It's obvious that you came here to push your own agenda and talking points and nothing is going to change your mind. If you would like to condemn Trump's anti-Semitic statements or explain why your views about Zionist influence over Congress are somehow different than his, we can discuss that further. Otherwise, feel free to have the last word about whatever random Israel-related topic you so choose.
I do not agree with Donald Trump who seems to be both pro-Israel and anti-Semitic at the same time.
But it seems that your evidence-free view is that AIPAC and the apartheid Israeli government have little influence over the US Congress or the US government and that to assert otherwise is anti-Semitic. Is that correct? If so, you don't explain the massive funds that the USA provides annually for the Israeli government and the IDF. That is what makes all the difference to you, to your fellow Zionists and to the apartheid state of Israel. Yet you refuse to discuss it. Without that influence and its resulting flow of money and weapons, Israel would have to become a democracy.
All you can do is make false claims and misquote Martin Luther King, Jr. None of my questions and challenges to you has been answered. I suspect that is because you have nothing to say about them; instead you try to make me and others who support Palestine into allies of Donald Trump. What has he ever said or done to support the people whom you treat as subhuman?
I made no comment about Mr Trump. I agreed with Ms Omar that AIPAC's work in the USA is mainly about obtaining funds. It is also about ensuring a steady and huge flow of weapons to apartheid Israel so that it can slaughter Palestinian men, women and children and keep Israel solely for white, Jewish people (see https://www.liberationnews.org/israels-long-history-of-anti-black-racism/)
As for your other question:
"So what does Zionism mean today, and how many American Jews reject Zionism? It isn’t an easy question to answer, since Zionism itself is such contested territory. But if we accept the current definition advanced by the state of Israel itself, that Zionism demands a state in which Jews hold a voting majority, then fully twenty percent of American Jews are not Zionists.
We know this because we know that one in five American Jews think it is more important for Israel to be a democracy than for it to remain a Jewish state, thanks to an AJC poll of American Jews are not Zionists). When asked if Israel can be both a Jewish state and a democracy, and if not, which should it be, fully 20% of American Jews answered “No, it should be a democracy.”"
https://forward.com/opinion/430535/a-lot-more-jews-are-anti-zionists-than-you-think/
"I made no comment about Mr Trump. "
I know. That's why I'm asking you if you agree with his view that Israel controls the US government. The fact that you keep dodging the question is illuminating. Peter, I think we got another one over here!
Apartheid Israel's government - composed of Zionists, allied to extremist Islamic states and friendly with the anti-Semitic far Right around the world - has a great deal of influence in the US government via AIPAC. How else do you explain the continuing vast amounts of money and weapons that the USA funnels to keep Israel from having to become a free democracy?
So, yes, you agree with Mr. Trump. Peter, any thoughts on this anti-Semite in the comments section of your Substack?
You might explain how what I wrote is anti-Semitic rather than anti-Zionist and anti-racist. You entirely failed to engage with my arguments or provide any counter-evidence. As for anti-Semitism, you might explain why Zionists and the apartheid government of Israel are so friendly with the anti-Semitic far Right.
"Fascistic President of Brazil Jair Bolsonaro visited the state of Israel over March and April this year, where he was warmly welcomed.
His tour is just the latest in a series of visits building connections and links between far-right anti-Semitic political figures and the Israeli government. In December last year, the Italian Interior Minister and leader of the racist anti-immigrant Lega Party, Matteo Salvini, visited Israel where he declared his unconditional support for the regime in Tel Aviv.
It is no exaggeration to say that Israel has actively courted the friendship and connections of ultra-right and anti-immigrant parties and ideologues from around the world. In turn, the latter have expressed their ideological support for the ethnocratic Zionist project, while holding explicitly anti-Semitic viewpoints.
Why is there an open and burgeoning alliance between the far-right fascistic parties and the Zionist state of Israel?"
https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/zionism-and-ultra-right-%E2%80%93-warm-embrace-political-brethren
You can read the Beinart article above for a far better and more comprehensive explanation about why your and Trump's views are anti-Semitic. You did read this article before commenting, correct? Here's a section for you:
"In the interview with Ravid, Trump declared “it used to be that Israel had absolute power over Congress.” Absolute power—how’s that for a statement about Jewish control? In criticizing The New York Times’ coverage of Israel, he also referenced the “Jewish people who run The New York Times, the Sulzberger family”—thus implying that the Sulzbergers’ Jewishness should dictate the newspaper’s coverage of the Jewish state. Trump has said these kinds of things before. He’s made it clear that he views American Jews as power-hungry, conspiracy-minded and money-obsessed. "
By expressing the same views as Trump and failing to even bother to pretend you disagree with him, by Beinart's standards you're expressing anti-Semitic views. Might as well just admit it and save everyone some time.
You are attributing to me views which I have never expressed. Mr Trump, the former US President who moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, might well be anti-Semitic but my views are not his. Neither the apartheid Israeli government nor AIPAC has absolute control over the US Congress. However, as must be obvious to anyone, they do have substantial influence. That does not mean "Jews have great power and too much influence". It means anti-Palestinian Zionists do. There is a considerable difference, yet you, all Zionists and the apartheid Israeli state use the untrue conflation of the two to lob accusations of anti-Semitism at the Left - but never at the far Right where it belongs.
My previous comment was about the considerable and growing links between your Zionist friends, the apartheid Israeli government and the real anti-Semites of the far Right around the world. You failed to answer my request that you explain these links.
You have also never condemned Trump's views despite multiple requests to do so while pushing essentially the same argument. "Control" vs. "substantial influence" is semantic hairsplitting. As for your claim that your views are about Zionists, not Jews, well, Trump didn't say Jews either, he said "Israel had absolute power over Congress" and yet Beinart and the rest of us were able to see through the euphemism to the anti-Semitic trope that it is. Your "not Jews but Zionists" language is not different in the slightest. MLK: "When people say Zionists they mean Jews". Beinart is not a Zionist but he can still recognize this. Why can't you? Maybe because you don't want to.
I've no interest in Trump's views. He was not my President; I'm British. You are seemingly deliberately conflating opposition to Zionist propaganda and political action with anti-Semitism. This is an old and discreditable tactic of smears but you know how well it works: it succeeded in ensuring that the pro-Palestinian Jeremy Corbyn could not be Prime Minister.
Supposedly quoting Martin Luther King, Jr. does not aid your case. "Some have attempted to paint King as an unswerving supporter of Israel. Their most substantial evidence is a letter that King supposedly wrote to an “anti-Zionist friend.”
"You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist’. . . . And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God’s green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews. . . . Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."
This passage supposedly originated from a “Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend” in an August 1967 edition of Saturday Review. But researchers have found no letters from Dr King in any of the four August 1967 editions. Some have claimed that the letter was also published in a book by Dr King entitled, This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. But according to Electronic Intifada, “no such book was listed in the bibliography provided by the King Center in Atlanta, nor in the catalogs of several large public and university libraries.” A recent search of all electronic databases confirms this."
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/02/martin-luther-king-israel-palestine-occupation
You still refuse to explain the strong links between your friends the Zionists, the apartheid Israeli government and far-Right movements and governments.
"... despite his allegedly anti-Semitic leanings, [Steve] Bannon has been widely embraced by prominent Zionists in American and Israeli politics. Bernie Marcus, a board member of the Republican Jewish Coalition, issued a statement saying, “I have known Steve to be a passionate Zionist and supporter of Israel who felt so strongly about this that he opened a Breitbart office in Israel to ensure that the true pro-Israel story would get out.”
Even Israel’s ambassador to the United States, Ron Dermer, echoed this sentiment, saying:
“Israel has no doubt that President-Elect Trump is a true friend of Israel. […] We look forward to working with the Trump administration, with all of the members of the Trump administration, including Steve Bannon, and making the US-Israel alliance stronger than ever.”
... Bannon’s ties to white nationalism hold the key to interpreting this conundrum. White nationalism and Zionism are both based on the formation of “ethno-states,” nations that serve the interests and culture of one particular ethnic group. Thus, recognizing the legitimacy of a Zionist state and its geopolitical goals serves to legitimize the white nationalism that often expresses anti-Semitic sentiments.
Todd Gitlin, a professor of journalism and sociology at Columbia University and cultural commentator, elaborated on this point when he told the Forward in November that this seemingly contradictory mix of anti-Semitism and Zionism are actually perfectly compatible thanks to their underlying nationalism. He explained:
“Anti-Semitism and right-wing Zionism are varieties of ultra nationalism, or, to put it more pejoratively (as it deserves to be put) tribalism. They both presume that the embattled righteous ones need to bristle at, wall off, and punish the damned outsiders. They hate and fear cosmopolitan mixtures. They make a fetish of purity. They have the same soul. They rhyme.”"
https://www.mintpressnews.com/steve-bannon-israel-first-america-second/224726/
You have no interest in Trump's views? This is literally an article based on something Donald Trump said. You came here to this article and starting posting views that are essentially the same thing and now you're trying to pretend you're "not interested"? You're not fooling anyone and this is truly pathetic to watch.
It's obvious that you came here to push your own agenda and talking points and nothing is going to change your mind. If you would like to condemn Trump's anti-Semitic statements or explain why your views about Zionist influence over Congress are somehow different than his, we can discuss that further. Otherwise, feel free to have the last word about whatever random Israel-related topic you so choose.
I do not agree with Donald Trump who seems to be both pro-Israel and anti-Semitic at the same time.
But it seems that your evidence-free view is that AIPAC and the apartheid Israeli government have little influence over the US Congress or the US government and that to assert otherwise is anti-Semitic. Is that correct? If so, you don't explain the massive funds that the USA provides annually for the Israeli government and the IDF. That is what makes all the difference to you, to your fellow Zionists and to the apartheid state of Israel. Yet you refuse to discuss it. Without that influence and its resulting flow of money and weapons, Israel would have to become a democracy.
All you can do is make false claims and misquote Martin Luther King, Jr. None of my questions and challenges to you has been answered. I suspect that is because you have nothing to say about them; instead you try to make me and others who support Palestine into allies of Donald Trump. What has he ever said or done to support the people whom you treat as subhuman?