"Because pro-Israel politicians and establishment American Jewish leaders are more tolerant of antisemitism when it doubles as support for Israel."
I've noticed that this is a tendency on both sides of the Israel-Palestine aisle. I agree with you that American Jews and Jewish leadership are more tolerant of antisemitism when it comes as support for Israel. Certainly I've never see any op eds from Jewish leadership denouncing an anti-Semitic Republican's vote for aid to Israel.
Likewise, though, on the other side of the aisle among the anti-Zionists, of which the author counts himself a member, there is also a considerable amount of tolerance for antisemitism when it doubles as "mere criticism of Israel" and Zionism. Many of the prominent anti-Zionist news sources and web spaces such as Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada spread anti-Semitic tropes like the one espoused by Donald Trump. In the author's previous article about Zionist vs. anti-Zionist polls, there was at least one anti-Zionist commentator arguing that Jews were not a people. Maybe the author should remove the log from his own eye (and substack) before removing the mote from others.
Yes, it's bad when the septuagenarian, disgraced, massively unpopular, twice impeached, historically reviled former President spreads anti-Semitic tropes. It's also bad when the young, celebrated, popular, Rolling Stone lionized, "anti-racist," "progressive," "human rights loving" Ilhan Omar says it. It is also bad when Mondoweiss, Electronic Intifada, mainstream Palestinian and Arab politicians, and anti-Zionists say it. Not that I would expect to hear such condemnations from Peter Beinart directed at that last group.
I think it's interesting that leftists like Beinart always insist on holding Israel to a higher standard than its fascist neighbors like Palestine because Israel is a Western liberal democracy. Yet they don't understand why others don't want to hold Donald Trump to the same standard as the self-proclaimed anti-racist, anti-hate speech, pro-immigrant, pro-tolerance, pro-diversity members of the Democratic Party. Funny how that works.
"Israel is a Western liberal democracy". None of that is true, is it? Surely you cannot have typed that with a straight face. Josef Avesar in The Times of Israel on 24/3/2020:
"...reasons why Israel is not a Democracy:
Israel does not have a Constitution and is unable to draft one since the concept of a “Jewish State” contradicts democratic principles of pluralism, secularism and equal rights.
Israel does not separate religion and government. It routinely passes religious laws on issues of family, marriage, divorce and immigration to prevent non-Jews from immigrating or to remain in the country in order to give Jews priority.
Israel does not give most of the Palestinians the right to vote. It controls the West Bank and Gaza but does not recognize the Palestinian population there as citizens. The argument that they are not part of Israel does not wash any longer in light of over 50 years occupation and a massive settlement project.
Israel does not separate between the executive and the legislative branch. All of its government ministers including the Prime Ministers are also members of the legislative branch. This dual capacity violates separation of power, a prerequisite of a functioning democracy."
I'd be happy to discuss whether or not Israel is a Western liberal democracy with you, but that is not the subject at hand. Can please let me know if you agree with my point, which is that Peter is just as much of a purveyor of double standards as the American Jewish leaders he criticizes in the column?
Sure; I disagree entirely. It's not a matter of holding Israel to a higher standard; any socialist worthy of the name detests oppression and lack of democracy wherever they are found - such as here in the UK or in apartheid Israel's allied states such as Saudi Arabia or Bahrain. We demand freedom from poverty, racist abuse, police killings and unfair restrictions for everyone, not just as Zionists do for white Jewish people in Israel. The Palestinian Authority is a stooge of apartheid Israel and it does not work in the interests of Palestinian people any more than the Israeli government does. Israel/Palestine needs to be a single, democratic state with full civil, political and human rights for all, not a racist ethno-state as at present.
Again, you're missing the point. This article is about America Jews' response to anti-Semitic tropes disseminated by certain politicians (Trump and Omar). You did read it right?
Yes, I did. You are claiming that it is anti-Semitic to demand that Israel and its Zionist supporters in the USA or elsewhere behave in democratic ways. I don't agree. If you can point to which tropes you believe to be anti-Semitic, we can discuss those; you didn't provide any.
I have never claimed that, and if this is the kind of intellectually dishonest discourse one can expect below Peter's articles, then that speaks volumes about his fanbase.
If you go and read the article and my response to it at the top of this thread, you will find the anti-Semitic trope under discussion is the insinuation that Jews (not "Zionists") control America. Both Trump and Omar have disseminated it. Now do you have anything to say about it, or are you going to try and change the subject again?
"Because pro-Israel politicians and establishment American Jewish leaders are more tolerant of antisemitism when it doubles as support for Israel."
I've noticed that this is a tendency on both sides of the Israel-Palestine aisle. I agree with you that American Jews and Jewish leadership are more tolerant of antisemitism when it comes as support for Israel. Certainly I've never see any op eds from Jewish leadership denouncing an anti-Semitic Republican's vote for aid to Israel.
Likewise, though, on the other side of the aisle among the anti-Zionists, of which the author counts himself a member, there is also a considerable amount of tolerance for antisemitism when it doubles as "mere criticism of Israel" and Zionism. Many of the prominent anti-Zionist news sources and web spaces such as Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada spread anti-Semitic tropes like the one espoused by Donald Trump. In the author's previous article about Zionist vs. anti-Zionist polls, there was at least one anti-Zionist commentator arguing that Jews were not a people. Maybe the author should remove the log from his own eye (and substack) before removing the mote from others.
Yes, it's bad when the septuagenarian, disgraced, massively unpopular, twice impeached, historically reviled former President spreads anti-Semitic tropes. It's also bad when the young, celebrated, popular, Rolling Stone lionized, "anti-racist," "progressive," "human rights loving" Ilhan Omar says it. It is also bad when Mondoweiss, Electronic Intifada, mainstream Palestinian and Arab politicians, and anti-Zionists say it. Not that I would expect to hear such condemnations from Peter Beinart directed at that last group.
I think it's interesting that leftists like Beinart always insist on holding Israel to a higher standard than its fascist neighbors like Palestine because Israel is a Western liberal democracy. Yet they don't understand why others don't want to hold Donald Trump to the same standard as the self-proclaimed anti-racist, anti-hate speech, pro-immigrant, pro-tolerance, pro-diversity members of the Democratic Party. Funny how that works.
"Israel is a Western liberal democracy". None of that is true, is it? Surely you cannot have typed that with a straight face. Josef Avesar in The Times of Israel on 24/3/2020:
"...reasons why Israel is not a Democracy:
Israel does not have a Constitution and is unable to draft one since the concept of a “Jewish State” contradicts democratic principles of pluralism, secularism and equal rights.
Israel does not separate religion and government. It routinely passes religious laws on issues of family, marriage, divorce and immigration to prevent non-Jews from immigrating or to remain in the country in order to give Jews priority.
Israel does not give most of the Palestinians the right to vote. It controls the West Bank and Gaza but does not recognize the Palestinian population there as citizens. The argument that they are not part of Israel does not wash any longer in light of over 50 years occupation and a massive settlement project.
Israel does not separate between the executive and the legislative branch. All of its government ministers including the Prime Ministers are also members of the legislative branch. This dual capacity violates separation of power, a prerequisite of a functioning democracy."
I'd be happy to discuss whether or not Israel is a Western liberal democracy with you, but that is not the subject at hand. Can please let me know if you agree with my point, which is that Peter is just as much of a purveyor of double standards as the American Jewish leaders he criticizes in the column?
Sure; I disagree entirely. It's not a matter of holding Israel to a higher standard; any socialist worthy of the name detests oppression and lack of democracy wherever they are found - such as here in the UK or in apartheid Israel's allied states such as Saudi Arabia or Bahrain. We demand freedom from poverty, racist abuse, police killings and unfair restrictions for everyone, not just as Zionists do for white Jewish people in Israel. The Palestinian Authority is a stooge of apartheid Israel and it does not work in the interests of Palestinian people any more than the Israeli government does. Israel/Palestine needs to be a single, democratic state with full civil, political and human rights for all, not a racist ethno-state as at present.
Again, you're missing the point. This article is about America Jews' response to anti-Semitic tropes disseminated by certain politicians (Trump and Omar). You did read it right?
Yes, I did. You are claiming that it is anti-Semitic to demand that Israel and its Zionist supporters in the USA or elsewhere behave in democratic ways. I don't agree. If you can point to which tropes you believe to be anti-Semitic, we can discuss those; you didn't provide any.
I have never claimed that, and if this is the kind of intellectually dishonest discourse one can expect below Peter's articles, then that speaks volumes about his fanbase.
If you go and read the article and my response to it at the top of this thread, you will find the anti-Semitic trope under discussion is the insinuation that Jews (not "Zionists") control America. Both Trump and Omar have disseminated it. Now do you have anything to say about it, or are you going to try and change the subject again?
A most important piece. I plan to share it. Thank you.
Thanks
Me too. On the RAs ravnet