If you want to better understand the complexity, I suggest reading: The War of Return: How Western Indulgence of the Palestinian Dream Has Obstructed the Path to Peace, written by Dr. Adi Schwartz and Dr. Einat Wilf
Thank you for book recommendation. Will check it out.
But we have to agree that the Palestinians are the aggrieved here first: they lost their land through no fault of their own, and they remain disfranchised for decades because of the occupation.
They onus is on the Jews to make amends, not on the Palestinians. Put yourself in their shoes, have some compassion.
I do have compassion for the average Palestinian. Their leaders for decades have kept them in this predicament. They have rejected multiple opportunities to have their own country. After Camp David, when both Israeli and Palestinian negotiating teams had agreed to a two state solution, Arafat refused and launched the murderous terror campaign in Israel with bus and nightclub bombings. The Saudis called him a criminal for doing so. Hopefully, a new Palestinian leader will emerge that understands that living in peace in his own country is better than throwing the Jews out of Israel. If not, IтАЩm afraid the Palestinian will remain stateless.
Agree, their leaders are to blame and because of this they have suffered for decades. Still no end in sight.
Imagine how much an effect compassion by most Jews and Israelis would bring to the Palestinians if many would stand up to the plight of the Palestinians like Beinart does. They'd protest like they did last week until they see the Palestinians treated like human beings. Beinart and critics of Israel see the humanity in the Palestinians, and because of their compassion are cognizant that the average Palestinian is not to blame for their plight.
Ultimately we have to acknowledge that land was stolen, is still occupied, and the natives treated as subhuman, in their own land. I think, we'll look back in the future and shake our heads wondering how it happened in our watch. Humans are humans, have feelings and goals and to be humuliated in their homes as the world watches, is painful.
The modern state of Israel was established in 1948, after the end of British rule in Palestine and the United Nations' decision to partition the land into two states, one for Jews and one for Arabs.
Contrary to popular belief, the land on which Israel was founded was not stolen from the Palestinians. It was part of the Ottoman Empire until the end of World War I, when it was awarded to the British as a mandate by the League of Nations. Under British rule, Jewish immigration to the area increased significantly as Jews sought refuge from anti-Semitism in Europe and the Middle East.
The partition plan was a proposal presented to both Jews and Arabs for consideration. While the Jewish leadership accepted it, the Arab leadership rejected it. When the British withdrew from Palestine in 1948, neighboring Arab states launched a war against the newly established state of Israel, aiming to prevent its creation and to conquer its territory. The war resulted in Israel's victory and the displacement of many Palestinians who left hoping to return after an Arab victory.
However, those Palestinians and their descendants who remained within the borders of Israel became Israeli citizens. The displacement of Palestinians was not the result of a premeditated plan by Israel, but rather a consequence of the war that they initiated.
Jews have maintained a presence in the land for thousands of years, and the establishment of another Jewish state there has been a long-held aspiration. The establishment of Israel was a fulfillment of this aspiration. Therefore, the land was not stolen from the Palestinians, but rather was part of a larger historical and political process that ultimately led to the creation of the state of Israel.
On the other hand, the descendants of Palestinian refugees are not entitled to a тАЬright of return.тАЭ This right only applies to refugees themselves, not to their descendants, according to international law. The right of return is a personal right that applies only to those who were displaced from their homes, and not to subsequent generations.
Moreover, the descendants of refugees have never been displaced themselves, and therefore have no legal or moral claim to the right of return. The right of return is not a matter of inherited rights, but rather a matter of personal rights that are tied to the specific experiences of the individual refugees themselves.
The demand for the right of return has been intentionally created as a non-starter issue, as a political tool by corrupt Palestinian politicians to prevent the implementation of a two-state solution. For decades, they have used this as a way to retain power and prevent their people from enjoying the benefits of statehood.
"The right of return is not a matter of inherited rights, but rather a matter of personal rights that are tied to the specific experiences of the individual refugees themselves." How comes a Jew from Brooklyn can fly to Tel Aviv and claim Israel citizenship, and get it, while those displaced and their descendants in Palestine cannot? That Palestinians in west Bank cannot go to Tel Aviv without military consent? How fair is that?
The idea of two state been done away with by many, including Peter, is not viable, never been. We are clamoring for one state where all are treated equal. But we know this poses a problem; Jews will be a minority, and will go against the raison detre of Zionism. Will dismantle Zionism. Can you imagine if tribes, sects, or even a race demanded a haven to themselves like the Jews do citing security? Why seclude and not learn to live with other humans?
The Palestinians have lived there for years. Torah says Jews were dispersed round the world. It gives a reason why. Some Jews are oppossed to Zionism because Torah is clear that it's through the agency of Yahweh that Israel will be a nation again. This is Judaism.
Now I know this guy is playing devil's advocate. After the Holocaust, you, so wide-eyed, ask Jews to just learn to live with other humans. Come on buddy, explain to the class how for 2000 years it is Jews who don't want to live with gentiles.
Every country creates its own immigration laws. If they choose to allow citizenship based on nationality, religion, education, skill, etc., they can do so. Israel allows Jews to immigrate. ThatтАЩs their right and their law.
Palestinians do not have this right. They are descendants of people who left in 1948. Now, they are dependent on their own corrupt leaders to make peace, something theyтАЩre unwilling to do. Not a great situation, but itтАЩs on them.
It is up to governments to make their own judgments on the matter based on their own values and beliefs. The Law of Return grants citizenship to anyone who is Jewish or has a Jewish grandparent, regardless of their race or ethnicity and as a Jewish state has the right to maintain its Jewish character by granting citizenship to Jews from around the world. How do descendants of Palestinians who left in 1948 possibly fit into this definition?
Richard I'll ask you outright....Do you think your life matters more than that of the Palestinians? Do you think you and Jews are special? Superior? Or why you think only Jews for Israel? is it because Torah says thst Jews are superior to Gentiles?
Just wow...So Israel is clearly a theocracy, Jewish state. Is this not discrimation? Even worse discrimination against the natives? Where's compassion? Equality?
Thank you. It's ok to disagree. Not ok to insult those you disagree with.
Still deep in the denial phase, acceptance will come. Someday. You are not more than the Palestinians....
If you want to better understand the complexity, I suggest reading: The War of Return: How Western Indulgence of the Palestinian Dream Has Obstructed the Path to Peace, written by Dr. Adi Schwartz and Dr. Einat Wilf
Thank you for book recommendation. Will check it out.
But we have to agree that the Palestinians are the aggrieved here first: they lost their land through no fault of their own, and they remain disfranchised for decades because of the occupation.
They onus is on the Jews to make amends, not on the Palestinians. Put yourself in their shoes, have some compassion.
I do have compassion for the average Palestinian. Their leaders for decades have kept them in this predicament. They have rejected multiple opportunities to have their own country. After Camp David, when both Israeli and Palestinian negotiating teams had agreed to a two state solution, Arafat refused and launched the murderous terror campaign in Israel with bus and nightclub bombings. The Saudis called him a criminal for doing so. Hopefully, a new Palestinian leader will emerge that understands that living in peace in his own country is better than throwing the Jews out of Israel. If not, IтАЩm afraid the Palestinian will remain stateless.
Agree, their leaders are to blame and because of this they have suffered for decades. Still no end in sight.
Imagine how much an effect compassion by most Jews and Israelis would bring to the Palestinians if many would stand up to the plight of the Palestinians like Beinart does. They'd protest like they did last week until they see the Palestinians treated like human beings. Beinart and critics of Israel see the humanity in the Palestinians, and because of their compassion are cognizant that the average Palestinian is not to blame for their plight.
Ultimately we have to acknowledge that land was stolen, is still occupied, and the natives treated as subhuman, in their own land. I think, we'll look back in the future and shake our heads wondering how it happened in our watch. Humans are humans, have feelings and goals and to be humuliated in their homes as the world watches, is painful.
The modern state of Israel was established in 1948, after the end of British rule in Palestine and the United Nations' decision to partition the land into two states, one for Jews and one for Arabs.
Contrary to popular belief, the land on which Israel was founded was not stolen from the Palestinians. It was part of the Ottoman Empire until the end of World War I, when it was awarded to the British as a mandate by the League of Nations. Under British rule, Jewish immigration to the area increased significantly as Jews sought refuge from anti-Semitism in Europe and the Middle East.
The partition plan was a proposal presented to both Jews and Arabs for consideration. While the Jewish leadership accepted it, the Arab leadership rejected it. When the British withdrew from Palestine in 1948, neighboring Arab states launched a war against the newly established state of Israel, aiming to prevent its creation and to conquer its territory. The war resulted in Israel's victory and the displacement of many Palestinians who left hoping to return after an Arab victory.
However, those Palestinians and their descendants who remained within the borders of Israel became Israeli citizens. The displacement of Palestinians was not the result of a premeditated plan by Israel, but rather a consequence of the war that they initiated.
Jews have maintained a presence in the land for thousands of years, and the establishment of another Jewish state there has been a long-held aspiration. The establishment of Israel was a fulfillment of this aspiration. Therefore, the land was not stolen from the Palestinians, but rather was part of a larger historical and political process that ultimately led to the creation of the state of Israel.
On the other hand, the descendants of Palestinian refugees are not entitled to a тАЬright of return.тАЭ This right only applies to refugees themselves, not to their descendants, according to international law. The right of return is a personal right that applies only to those who were displaced from their homes, and not to subsequent generations.
Moreover, the descendants of refugees have never been displaced themselves, and therefore have no legal or moral claim to the right of return. The right of return is not a matter of inherited rights, but rather a matter of personal rights that are tied to the specific experiences of the individual refugees themselves.
The demand for the right of return has been intentionally created as a non-starter issue, as a political tool by corrupt Palestinian politicians to prevent the implementation of a two-state solution. For decades, they have used this as a way to retain power and prevent their people from enjoying the benefits of statehood.
"The right of return is not a matter of inherited rights, but rather a matter of personal rights that are tied to the specific experiences of the individual refugees themselves." How comes a Jew from Brooklyn can fly to Tel Aviv and claim Israel citizenship, and get it, while those displaced and their descendants in Palestine cannot? That Palestinians in west Bank cannot go to Tel Aviv without military consent? How fair is that?
The idea of two state been done away with by many, including Peter, is not viable, never been. We are clamoring for one state where all are treated equal. But we know this poses a problem; Jews will be a minority, and will go against the raison detre of Zionism. Will dismantle Zionism. Can you imagine if tribes, sects, or even a race demanded a haven to themselves like the Jews do citing security? Why seclude and not learn to live with other humans?
The Palestinians have lived there for years. Torah says Jews were dispersed round the world. It gives a reason why. Some Jews are oppossed to Zionism because Torah is clear that it's through the agency of Yahweh that Israel will be a nation again. This is Judaism.
Now I know this guy is playing devil's advocate. After the Holocaust, you, so wide-eyed, ask Jews to just learn to live with other humans. Come on buddy, explain to the class how for 2000 years it is Jews who don't want to live with gentiles.
Every country creates its own immigration laws. If they choose to allow citizenship based on nationality, religion, education, skill, etc., they can do so. Israel allows Jews to immigrate. ThatтАЩs their right and their law.
Palestinians do not have this right. They are descendants of people who left in 1948. Now, they are dependent on their own corrupt leaders to make peace, something theyтАЩre unwilling to do. Not a great situation, but itтАЩs on them.
Where else do you have citizenship denied because of one's race or such? Another comes to mind, Vatican city. Religion really poisons all....
Israel belongs to Palestinians no matter how you look at it.
It is up to governments to make their own judgments on the matter based on their own values and beliefs. The Law of Return grants citizenship to anyone who is Jewish or has a Jewish grandparent, regardless of their race or ethnicity and as a Jewish state has the right to maintain its Jewish character by granting citizenship to Jews from around the world. How do descendants of Palestinians who left in 1948 possibly fit into this definition?
Richard I'll ask you outright....Do you think your life matters more than that of the Palestinians? Do you think you and Jews are special? Superior? Or why you think only Jews for Israel? is it because Torah says thst Jews are superior to Gentiles?
Just wow...So Israel is clearly a theocracy, Jewish state. Is this not discrimation? Even worse discrimination against the natives? Where's compassion? Equality?
Repeating the same rubbish again does not make it right!