38 Comments

I think my comment on Beinart's latest column would also apply here:

https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/antisemitism-and-anti-palestinianism/comment/6992525

As I said then, people like Beinart are trying to thread an impossible needle. They want to be part of a movement that harasses Jews, demonizes Jews, and seeks to deprive the Jews collectively of their rights. But they also want to do it without being perceived as anti-Semitic. This cannot be done. Germany isn't fooled. Neither is anybody else.

Oh and by the way, Beinart's claim that BDS was created by Palestinians because "they want full equality" is a total lie. BDS leaders have admitted many times that the goal of BDS is to destroy Israel as a Jewish state, and even if a Palestinian state was created BDS would continue. Again, nobody is fooled by these stale talking points. Germany recognizes BDS and anti-Zionism as anti-Semitic, which they are, and Beinart's increasingly pathetic denials are not working.

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"Germany recognizes BDS and anti-Zionism as anti-Semitic, which they are, and Beinart's increasingly pathetic denials are not working." Germany is wrong, Peter Beinart is right.

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The fact that this middle school debate team level non-response is the best Peter's cheerleaders can come up with is a testament to why the Palestinians have lost for almost a century and will continue to lose in the future, while Israel goes from strength to strength.

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Take away the most powerful country in the world, aided by a subservient Congress, and what have you got? HASBARA!

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Well their platform on their website -- bdsmovement.net -- clearly uses the language of calling Israel a colonialist endeavor, and calls for UN resolution 194 (right of return to Israel proper), and DO NOT clearly advocate in their marches, banners, or forums for any semblance of what Oslo Accords suggested. Come on Peter. I am a college professor and see the way Jewish students are harassed, couched in the veil of BDS and anti-Israel policies, when the slippery slope is clearly there, evident, and ruthless. I'd like to see you get a BDS leader to go on record in support of a two-state solution.

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Professor Beinart you need to stop promoting BDS. BDS is first and foremost not for a peaceful resolution of the Israel/Palestine issues. Full stop.

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Jun 14, 2022·edited Jun 14, 2022

Like I said in the previous post, "pro-Palestine" activists like Peter have no one but themselves to blame if the correct equation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism and the German court ruling of BDS is "disastrous".

From day one "Palestinian rights" has been weaponized by its alleged supporters to mean "death to Israel." The phrase "Pro-Palestinian" has long been conflated with the bigoted assertions that Jewish rights are racism, that Jews have no right to statehood or self-determination, that Jews are "imperialists" and "colonizers" in their own homeland, that Jewish history is a lie, and that any peace with Israel is "normalization" and a betrayal of the Palestinian people. Equating anti-Zionism and Palestinian rights was a huge mistake that Palestine advocates have been making for decades and show no sign of stopping.

Imagine if people who allegedly supported Palestinian rights united as a movement and said as a group "We want peace between the Jewish state of Israel and the Arab state of Palestine in the form of a two state solution. We respect the Jewish people's right of self-determination in their homeland and all we want is self-determination for Palestinians in their own state of Palestine. We reject anti-Zionism and all efforts to undermine the Jewish character of Israel as well as the Arab character of Palestine." This attitude would be embraced in Germany, in the US, and all over the world. What an absolute tragedy that beliefs like those would never ever be allowed in the modern day pro-Palestinian movement. What a waste. Your movement could easily be part of the solution, if it chooses to, but instead insists on being part of the problem.

It is a straight up lie that support for BDS is support for freedom, equality, human rights and all the rest of the list. No one believes it anymore outside of the Palestine cult.

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Peace is readily achievable between Israel and Palestine when Palestinians 1) accept Israel’s right to exist; 2) agree to a state of their own next to Israel; and 3) agree to a “right of return” to a new state of Palestine and not to Israel. For over 70 years there have been numerous formal and informal efforts to achieve a two state peace, but all have ended with Palestinian rejection.

But times are changing. Arab countries refuse to be held hostage by Palestinian intransigence and are normalizing relations with Israel. The latest, and the BIG one, Saudi Arabia, is now in serious talks with Israel about normalization.

Your activism should be aimed at the corrupt and criminal Palestinian leaders who continue to teach children to ‘drive the Jews into the sea.’ Hopefully one day they will instead choose peace so that both peoples can thrive.

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Here’s the conundrum: I cherish Palestinian rights, for equality and such, but when the BDS leaders talk about this ideal, they mean to limit or expel Israeli (and even Jewish) rights. So then their game just becomes, by default, “anti-“. They’re not interested in two flags, or even in understanding that Zionism takes many forms and is a fundamental part of Jewish life and history in some way. No! The BDS crowd simply say they’re about Palestinian rights, but at what cost? They want to destroy the other in the process. How can we allow that to be the pathway forward? That’s not an evolution towards anything better? That’s just a rinse-repeat of the same error in approach that the most right-wing, vociferous forms of Zionist nationalism has already brought upon them. The spillover to anti-Jewish is indeed there, in the BDS and Palestinian rights movements. Call a spade a spade Peter!

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It's hard to respond at such a general level. I don't know which BDS leaders you mean and what comments you're talking about. I'm not involved in the BDS movement and have criticized certain actions taken by BDS activists and am sure i'll continue to. But on the three core planks--equality for Palestinian citizens, end of occupation and right of return, i agree. And I believe those don't violate the jewish right to autonomous self-determination within a framework of legal equality, which is how i interpret the cultural zionist tradition.

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The founder of BDS, Omar Barghouti, has made multiple statements making the intentions of BDS clear. If you're going to write about BDS, you need to be aware of these statements. Here's one below and a link to the rest by Omar and other prominent BDSers.

“A Jewish state in Palestine in any shape or form cannot but contravene the basic rights of the indigenous Palestinian population and perpetuate a system of racial discrimination that ought to be opposed categorically….Definitely, most definitely we oppose a Jewish state in any part of Palestine. No Palestinian, rational Palestinian, not a sell-out Palestinian, will ever accept a Jewish state in Palestine.” - Omar Barghouti

http://www.stopbds.com/?page_id=48

If you're going to decry the banning of this hate movement as you did in your piece above, at least let your readers know the truth: BDS is actively working to remove from existence the Jewish state of Israel. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it isn't, but let's all at least be on the same page about it.

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i've interviewed Omar twice publicly. I'm very familiar with his views--not just this quote, which gets recycled all the time. Of course he opposes a Jewish state--he doesn't try to hide it. As you may know, I believe in an equal state myself, not a Jewish one. If you're a paid subscriber you can watch the interview we did last year. it's on the substack page.

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You're familiar with Omar's views, therefore when you said above to STO that you "don't know which BDS leaders you mean," that pretty clearly wasn't true. Omar opposes the existence of the Jewish state, by any rational view that's seeking to limit Israeli and Jewish rights.

But it's good to know that you're finally now able to admit, in the comments section, that BDS seeks to destroy Israel and deprive the Jewish people of their self-determination and statehood. Maybe now you can take the next step and figure out why such a hateful, anti-Semitic movement is getting shown the door in Germany.

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Jun 14, 2022·edited Jun 14, 2022

Beinart will never tell the truth about BDS and anti-Zionism. He remembers what happened to Norman Finkelstein, and knows which side his matzah is buttered on. It isn't the side of peace and human rights for everyone.

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Great article, again. The conflation of anti-zionism with anti-semitism has always confused me, precisely because it is illogical, and therefore more like propaganda than a valid argument.

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thanks

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Jun 14, 2022·edited Jun 14, 2022

It's pretty simple. Jews have the right to self-determination and statehood, and anti-Zionism seeks to strip them of those rights. It's anti-Semitic to deprive Jews of their rights.

It's hypocritical as well because the Palestinians have been advocating for a state of their own, and many of those same anti-Zionists are advocating FOR a Palestinian state while simultaneously advocating AGAINST a Jewish state. A pretty obvious double standard, on par with advocating for white people to be able to vote but not black people.

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you might find this worth reading https://jewishcurrents.org/there-is-no-right-to-a-state

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Peter, you and I both know there are dozens of states worldwide with ethnic and religious characters. There are 21 Christian and 50 Muslim countries, to only give two examples. Anti-Zionism calls for the removal and ONLY the removal of the one Jewish state, leaving all of the other religious and ethnic states in place. That is as blatant and obvious an anti-Semitic double standard as you can possibly find, on par with demolishing the one synagogue in town while leaving the dozens of churches and mosques intact.

I don't see anti-Zionists marching in opposition to the existence of a Palestinian state, or a Scottish state, or a Kurdish state, or ANY OTHER STATE besides the Jewish one. In theory and in practice, anti-Zionism is seeking to strip the Jews and only the Jews of an institution that dozens of other nations take for granted.

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"dehumanizers control Israel’s government, which has a vested interest in being able to abuse Palestinians with impunity"

To a certain extent I do not agree entirely with this statement.

I myself would put it this way" dehumanizers in the current Israeli government have a vested interest in being able to defend at all costs those who abuse or even kill Palestinian civilians'

As a child of Holocaust survivors and as a German speaker I can almost understand the knee jerk reaction of the German body politick to anything that smacks of anti-Semitism. However, as a Jew I reserve the right to criticize Israel as much as I damn please when I see that country going off the rails. So very much in the spirit of the same dynamic as Black Folk. A Black man or woman is free to use the N word but there is a Taboo and a price to pay lest a non person of color chooses to use the same expression.

In my mind it MUST be ultimately be Jews who continue to confront the increasingly horrific excesses of Eretz Yisrael toward the Palestinian people who also want peace.

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I agree that Germans should be very careful about antisemitism. But when that care turns into abetting oppression, I don't think its a moral response to the legacy of the Holocaust

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I totally agree with that premise and hope my comments were understood as such. There is such a fine line between atoning for the murderous actions of their ancestors..and yet understanding that some Israeli Jews could actually be acting on similar tendencies.

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Clearly you're not a Hebrew speaker or a particularly knowledgeable Jew, or else you would know that "Eretz Yisrael" means "The Land of Israel," which isn't capable of doing anything to the Palestinian people or anyone else.

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Thank you for drawing attention to this. As usual, so eloquently written weaving in many nuances. It's sad to see how "atonement gone haywire" has clouded the thinking of so many Germans. It's a significant piece in the lack of progress for Palestinian human rights. So ironic and sad: caught up in the history and need to rightfully remember one extraordinary horrible human rights disaster while contributing to perpetuating another.

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“It’s morally wrong because the Holocaust wasn’t evil because the Nazis murdered Jews (among others). The Holocaust was evil because the Nazis murdered human beings, many of whom were Jews.”

This is an incredible statement. The Nazis murdered Jews because they were Jews, whom the Nazis considered subhuman. They admitted as much. There was a “Final Solution to the Jewish Problem,” not a “Final Solution to the human beings who happen to be Jewish…”

This statement turns universal rights on its head - its misinformation, pure and simple, and misinformation that indeed “hijacks” and distorts and denies Holocaust memory. Extremely dangerous.

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Thank you so much, Peter! You nailed. Unfortunately I could not be at the conference, I would have been very happy to meet you in person. I'll spread this article widely in my network.

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Thank you, Nirit. I really appreciate it

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Do we still live in a world where anyone of truly moral conscience would argue against a universal and equal entitlement to human rights? No. We still live in a world where there is a scarcity of those who can rightfully claim to have a truly moral conscience and a willingness to fight for it. We owe our highest allegiance to truth, wisdom, and justice, not to family, culture, or nation.

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Sadly, you are right about the rigid support for apartheid Israel among German officials. Similar to the US, the uncritical support for colonialism in Israel is a must for any official. Many people drink the koolaid because life is easier as a teacher, politician, business leader. The same lack of humanity, rigid obedience to government rules that made the Third Reich a hellhole for many groups is now employed to ignore the extreme abuses that Palestinians suffer in Gaza, the open air prison, and in the Westbank. Under Hitler, you marched behind that flag into war and genocide. Today, we Germans march behind the Israeli flag. No time to look at the violence metted out by Israeli soldiers. Don't look at the human suffering caused by German politics, then and now. Just close your mind, heart and ears to ignore the screams. Ignorance is bliss.

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Martina--As you know, I totally agree about the conditions of Palestinians and the limits on debate in Germany. But I think it's possible--and important--to make those arguments without comparing Israeli behavior with Nazi behavior. Yeshayahu Leibowitz and some other Jews have made the comparison but I think it's deeply mistaken.

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Thank you for your response. I really wanted to speak about the German reaction to the Palestinian suffering and their political cause. We are taught to give the needs and rights of Jewish Israelis higher priority at the expense of the Palestinians. This shows that we still defer too much to authority and that we still override our conscience to be "good" Germans.

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No one of conscience should ever be on the side of the Palestinians.

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“ It’s analytically wrong because the Jews murdered in the Holocaust had diverse opinions about Jewish statehood. Many were anti-Zionists…”

First, Beinart offers zero proof that “many” Jews were anti-Zionist. That position, to the extent it was relevant at all, pertained to a small sliver of Communist Jews, or a tiny number of privileged Western Jews who were concerned about undermining their social position. The notion that these were “many” is wrong. That Beinart would cite this without acknowledging that the reasoning of these anti-Zionists Jews was fatally undermined by the Holocaust tells you what you need to know about Beinart.

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in addition to bundists and other leftists, who were quite numerous, i was thinking of people we would now call haredim.

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How numerous, Peter? Let's see some facts and figures.

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Jun 23, 2022·edited Jun 23, 2022

Most Ashkenazi Jews lived in the Pale. And most were not politically active, no matter how many bundists you think there were (at their height there were maybe 40,000 Bundists, out of how many millions of Jews in the Pale?). Other Leftists were not automatically anti-Zionist. Indeed, many settled in Israel & started kibbutzim. WRT the Haredim - anti Zionist in theory, quite happy to live in Israel & be supported by the state in practice. Not a strong reed upon which to base an argument.

In any case my point about their rationale for anti Zionism, whatever it may have been, being superseded by the Shoah stands. I doubt many Jews on trains East were fervent anti Zionists.

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Peter, on the debate about BDS, I liked this comment from another blog.

"Anti-Palestinians should be commended for their honesty.

Back in the day, say 5-10 years ago, anti-Palestinians disqualified BDS because of some bad actors who also backed BDS. No matter how many times Omar Barghouti denounced those claiming to speak in his name, BDS was in the wrong. (The same standard was never applied by the same people to their own Zionism: even though, Israeli Zionism is dominated by unabashedly racist settlers, the same American liberal Zionists who disqualified BDS on these grounds had no problem holding on to their own Zionism.)

But now, the anti-Palestinians have come out with their honest position: the Palestinians have no voice at all. It doesn’t matter what they say or what they mean. All that is irrelevant. The only relevant question is: “how do the Israelis hear what you say?”

Flippancy, satire, repudiation, ignoring are the only possible responses to such hypocritical attempts at silencing."

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Boo hoo hoo the BDS movement is such a victim, even as they constantly spread hatred, anti-Semitism and violence. No one's buying the victim act any more, Germany sees BDS for what it is: hate.

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